Apple being Apple again. Just why does anyone actually like that company?
Man, they’re seething against the EU, totally pissed that the legislators worked against their abuse over developers and rubbed against their cash cow.
Apple is all about money and fucking the user, being no different from Meta or Google. All they have is shinier hardware.
Much worse than Google IMO, at least when it comes to fucking with rules made by EU. Google usually tries to appeal legally and if it doesn’t work out, they do what they must. This Apple bulshittery with 3rd party app stores is a new one. Someone here in this thread said that the worst EU can do to companies breaking DMA is forcing them to sell the division. I would love for Apple to push EU that far.
Companies working against technical standards are basically working against society. And no one fights standards quite like Apple.
Apple is scary because they succeeded at creating a sect by frontal assault, so to say.
Google did that very subtly and precisely in the 00s, and like a decade ago firmly diverted to the MS way.
MS didn’t go in the cult direction, they slowly and steadily capitalized on their monopolistic power with moderation and modesty.
While Apple almost from the beginning just shat on everybody and everybody asked for more. They even took the counterculture niche partially in the 90s and 00s. And for clueless people it’s still them.
I’d argue they have better hardware. I’d love to have an iPhone running stock Android.
I mean the og comment literally said “all they have is shinier hardware”
Costs a fortune, hard to repair, no SD slot, no headphone jack, until recently could not be used with the chargers you have for everything else… At least for me it is a “no”.
What about privacy though? Google runs an ad network, so clearly they have financial incentive to spy hard.
So does Apple, the difference being they grabbed it all to themselves. This is why they have “no tracking” options, to seal competition off while selling themselves as the privacy champions and also selling their in house ad solution. That and the fact that they worked with the government behind users back, and having a shoddy work to secure their OS.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56995192
https://www.vox.com/recode/23045136/apple-app-tracking-transparency-privacy-ads
Apple is not any better than Meta, they just lie better.
Third party browser & JavaScript engine + ability to install web apps on the Home screen = third party app store that doesn’t have to pay Apple’s fees.
When Apple could force everyone to use Apple’s WebKit, web apps didn’t matter as much as Apple could limit WebKit features to push people to the App Store. E.g. it took ages to get push notifications on WebKit. If Google and Mozilla are free to make whatever improvements to their browser engines, the need to have native apps on the phone decreases considerably.
That’s what I really want personally, the mobile web Steve Jobs envisioned. Glorious web apps without flash.
Fuck apple with a cactus.
Lol, what phone are you using?
Edit: Why am I being downvoted? The dude said to fuck someone with a cactus. That’s hilarious - no one else thinks that’s funny? I’m still laughing lol
OnePlus 10 pro.
Would never sacrifice the flexibility and customizability of an Android device for the clunky and unintuitive UI of an iPhone.
So why fuck Apple? You’re using an Android device, Apple has updated their software in a way that doesn’t compel you to want to try an Apple device, end of story why all the vitriol?
I could see, maybe, if you were already an Apple user and wanted them to make a change that you want on your device. But having so much hate for a device you have no intention of using anyway?
This change impacts every mobile user, not just iPhone users. iPhones are a good portion of the userbase of most apps/websites. For PWAs to gain mass adoption, it needs to be available for the majority of users. This change means that will not be the case in the EU.
PWAs have just been doomed by Apple, and unless Apple reverts this change, they will now never be successful in the EU. And probably not even outside of the EU since non-european products still have european users.
You can say many things about apple but clunky and unintuitive would not be it.
You only find Apple’s UI intuitive because you’re used to it.
I don’t find it intuitive at all. Whenever I’ve used an iPhone, I’ve had to ask for help.
And I’m a full stack web developer, who contributes to some other software projects in my spare time. I’ve been around computers a fair bit.
Operating systems these days are complicated. It’s difficult to make them immediately intuitive to a new user. This isn’t a dig at Apple. Any modern, highly featured OS is like this.
Same. I have no idea how to use an iphone. Even basic things are frustrating.
I moved from android to iphone 2 years ago. As soon as this piece of crap dies, I’m moving back to android.
Heh, welcome back soon!
looking forward to being able to have separate volumes for notifications and ringer again… "#/(%)&#)$%&
Unfortunately that’s not a stock Android thing, so weird
Really? Pixels have had that function for a while now. I always assumed it was stock.
I have a Pixel, notification and ringer are combined
I am not a huge fan of Apple but they will probably be stuck on iOS for a while. Their phones last quite a long time and get updates for very long.
honestly, the shitty user experience might make me chuck it into the trash before it actually dies.
Haha, that’s fair enough.
i find it absolutely hilarious when iphone fans talk about a polished user experience, it’s a joke.
no one complains about their phones more than iphone users
Welp, this might be kbin for me. It’s the only circumstance I’ve really found a PWA necessary, although I’ve considered making PWAs of some online shops I frequent.
I suspect Apple is eliminating PWAs from safari in the EU just because they don’t want to be forced to allow 3rd party browsers to do the same. Let’s go ahead and throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I’ve actually got a U.S. apple account on an iPhone bought in Japan, and living in the EU temporarily. It’ll be interesting to see how this is going to play out for me.
Just why does anyone actually like that company?
I mean, if Google weren’t shit, I’m sure Android would be more viable. They’ve can’t even keep a consistent brand! They’ve gone from Google Play this and that, to migrating everything - including podcasts - to YouTube.
migrating everything - including podcasts - to YouTube
If only there were other apps for podcasts on Android, it would be a viable operating system.
Google is kind of crap, but Android has a lot more built-in escape hatches than iOS does. People don’t seem to use them as much as I’d hoped, but they’re available.
Is there a podcast app that automatically plays the next episode of podcasts in the correct order (oldest to newest)?
I’ve tried a bunch of podcast apps and none of them seem to do that like Google podcasts did, unless I’m using them wrong.
Antennapod can do that. You can define the sort order per show.
While I totally agree, the average Joe is just going to gravitate to whomever controls the ecosystem. Kinda hard to trust a higher authority when they can’t even get their in-house shit together.
Are you implying that the average user doesn’t know how to install an app? My 80 yo parents do that on their samsung tablet.
No need to trust any higher authorities, whatever that means
I’m implying that people choose the path of least resistance.
Gotcha, sorry misunderstood
I’ve been using Podcast Addict for years now. Dunno why people think they are bound to one thing when Android offers so many choices.
I think they’re just have choice paralysis. There’s too much stuff on Android, and picking something is really rather anoying.
Something like a Gallery. There’s probably a 1000 galleries on Play Store, 50% of them are “my first app”, that display a fullscreen ad every other photo.
You have to know what you want, research it, then get it. Non-nerds don’t really care about that.
My guess. I’m a nerd who does care about all that.
You do have a point, but each App’s play store page itself shows whether it has ads or in-app purchases. One can use that as an indicator for selecting an app. So people just need to pay attention to the small text right below the App’s title
Then there is always f-droid . You can find really good quality software without ads in fdroid. I rarely use the play store these days (except when I have to update whatsapp and banking apps)
Again, you’re telling this to an android nerd. I’m aware.
I’m speaking from a perspective of an average joe, who is 100% not aware of the existance of F-droid or is convinced that it’s malware.
I’m also don’t expect people sift through hundreds of apps, opening each page and checking permissions/ads/reviews.
People install apps either because they’ve heard about it on TV/whatever, or a friend told them to install this specific app.
This is why people rely on default apps, and compare “phones” based on that.
I will confess I used Google podcasts for years not realizing that the FOSS alternatives were MASSIVE improvements.
Android is more popular globally, the only place where it isn’t true (AFAIK) is USA where the colour of the text bubble is important for reasons that defy logic.
where the colour of the text bubble is important for reasons that defy logic.
That’s just a thing tweens and teens do, it’s just like when kids were obsessed with expensive shoes when I was a kid and would ostracize the kids who couldn’t afford them. No sane adult I have ever met gave a shit about my text bubbles.
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If that company is serious about conducting professional business for any length of time, they’ll learn better soon enough. In my industry, we still use dialup modems to remotely manage some equipment. You’d be fired for telling a customer to fuck off for not having a specific phone.
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That’s half-true. No adults I voluntarily associate with care what brand of phone anybody else has in theory, but a lot of the iPhone owners are vehemently unwilling to install any third-party messaging apps. That means:
- Messaging about anything where security is important is a problem. Most people don’t have big secrets, but sending things that could be used for identity theft isn’t terribly rare.
- Exchanging high-quality media is impossible.
- People will exclude non-iPhone users from group chats because falling back to MMS is a bad experience for everyone.
Yeah. We usually mock apple users in my country xd they go in high debt to get one of those candy bricks and can’t even afford a cellular plan afterwards. Lmao
Fuck google buy a google pixel then put grapheneos on it
Fuck Google
Give them money
Is there another option?
Its kinda ironic that google pixel is the only phone with decent secirity hardware and an unlockablw bootloader.
Some services, like Facebook Gaming, use web apps as a way to get around the Apple App Store and its fees.
Smell coming out from this little hole here :)
Well, now they can use their own Facebook App Store on iPhones in EU, so not sure it really changes anything for them.
Their own Facebook App Store would have to pay the same fees to Apple as the Apple App Store under Apple’s generous terms. Losing the web app escape hatch is a 30% revenue loss
Queue the Apple dick riders defending their precious megacorp from being a POS company
*Cue
Nah, they are lining up to defend their favorite company.
Que?
Queue?
Qwayway?
As a sysadmin and self-hoster this decision will absolutely make me drop Apple 150%. A clean and well implemented pwa was a big reason I have stuck with my iPhone 12 despite buying a pixel 7. I know there are options on Android but they all have issues either in ux or in ui that makes it very obvious I’m using a pwa.
An update from Apple. Apple actually reversed that decision. Finally. Tested on latest stable version of iOS 17.4 and it works. (from https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu/#dev-qa ):
Why don’t users in the EU have access to Home Screen web apps?
UPDATE: Previously, Apple announced plans to remove the Home Screen web apps capability in the EU as part of our efforts to comply with the DMA. The need to remove the capability was informed by the complex security and privacy concerns associated with web apps to support alternative browser engines that would require building a new integration architecture that does not currently exist in iOS.
We have received requests to continue to offer support for Home Screen web apps in iOS, therefore we will continue to offer the existing Home Screen web apps capability in the EU. This support means Home Screen web apps continue to be built directly on WebKit and its security architecture, and align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS.
Developers and users who may have been impacted by the removal of Home Screen web apps in the beta release of iOS in the EU can expect the return of the existing functionality for Home Screen web apps with the availability of iOS 17.4 in early March.
Finally, some good news.
Apple being Apple again. Just why does anyone actually like that company?
Marketing and build quality goes a long way to making people feel like a company is good.
How will this affect the Lemmy client Voyager? Is it considered a web app? My understanding was that it was.
It is, they have an official app store app as well though. However I find mlem to be a smoother experience, particularly scrolling, and it tends to keep its position when being backgrounded better than memmy and voyager.
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Unless you force them to open up their system for 3rd party stores and browsers like EU did, I think you’re fine.
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Glad I helped you!
I was starting to love pwa… But this is going to kill the momentum it was starting to have 😢
Well, let’s hope EU fines them all the way to bankruptcy (I know that’s not gonna happen, but one can dream).
The EU could force Apple to sell their iPhone business. That’s listed as the maximum penalty for a DMA violation for companies that “systematically” fail to open up their platform.
apple wouldn’t do that, they’d withdraw from the EU first
The probably couldn’t afford the development /s
But on the positive side, Apple is now forced to allow other app stores on all phones in the EU.
So that’s probably a bigger win than this is a loss.
Depends on whether your app is distributed as a PWA or not. Mine is, so it kinda touches me personally.
@rikudou@lemmings.world Just an update for you. I just tried my PWA app on last stable version of iOS 17.4 and it works again. I made a quick google search if it’s just me, or Apple actually reversed they decision and I found this (from https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu/#dev-qa ):
Why don’t users in the EU have access to Home Screen web apps?
UPDATE: Previously, Apple announced plans to remove the Home Screen web apps capability in the EU as part of our efforts to comply with the DMA. The need to remove the capability was informed by the complex security and privacy concerns associated with web apps to support alternative browser engines that would require building a new integration architecture that does not currently exist in iOS.
We have received requests to continue to offer support for Home Screen web apps in iOS, therefore we will continue to offer the existing Home Screen web apps capability in the EU. This support means Home Screen web apps continue to be built directly on WebKit and its security architecture, and align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS.
Developers and users who may have been impacted by the removal of Home Screen web apps in the beta release of iOS in the EU can expect the return of the existing functionality for Home Screen web apps with the availability of iOS 17.4 in early March.
Finally, some good news.
