- cross-posted to:
- homeautomation@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- homeautomation@lemmy.world
cross-posted from: https://feddit.uk/post/7783032
When I started at Ars in the summer of 2022, the next generation of smart home standards was on the way. Matter, an interoperable device setup and management system, and Thread, a radio network that would provide secure, far-reaching connectivity optimized for tiny batteries. Together, they would offer a home that, while well-connected, could also work entirely inside a home network and switch between controlling ecosystems with ease. I knew this tech wouldn’t show up immediately, but I thought it was a good time to start looking to the future, to leave behind the old standards and coalesce into something new.
Instead, Matter and Thread are a big mess, and I am now writing to tell you that I was wrong, or at least ignorant, to have ignored the good things that already existed: Zigbee and Z-Wave. I’ve put in my time with Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and various brittle combinations of the two. They’re useful for data-rich devices and for things that can stay plugged in. Zigbee and Z-Wave have been around, but they always seemed fidgety, obscure, and vaguely European at a glance. But here, in the year 2024, I am now an admirer of both, and I think they still have a place in our homes.
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What does “vaguely European” even mean?
That’s how I’d describe Tommy Wiseau or John Waters lol
Gillian Anderson in her later career also.
Haha, I have no idea. Possibly less corporate, more “small, simple, open system that others can contribute to”.
I can only speak in vagueness on the “european-ness”, to be honest.
HASS/Zigbee have an open, european feel to me.
HomeSeer has a very american “this is the way we’re doing it, it costs this much” feel.
What i have a problem is the developer accessebility.
I want to build my own sensors into boards and use those, but the devboards are so expensive, its not worth it.
A board with an esp8266 costs just 1-2€, with zigbee its 20-25€.
Might aswell go for the new esp32 versions now and use thread… and its still cheaper.
(though that wasnt an option a few years back, best option there was esp-mesh which kinda sucked)esp32-c6 (supports zigbee), is pretty cheap.
If only ESPHome had support for Zigbee on the C6 and H2. So much potential for cool projects.
ZigBee and Z-Wave are awesome because they stay functional irrespective of:
- WiFi
- Router
- Internet
- Cloud
So long as the Home Assistant is alive, everything works. The reliability and uptime approaches the AC mains.
And they allow for battery powered devices to have multi-year battery life.
The internet and cloud points are my favorite. Specifically the fact that those things are out of the picture.
No VLAN configuration necessary. The hub is “the VLAN”. They literally can’t phone home because they have no route to the internet, with no extra setup necessary. For WiFi devices, I have to make sure they’re connecting to the right VLAN and controlled properly, and if I misconfigure something, they are phoning home or joining a botnet.
(This stops being as applicable if you have a sketchy hub you don’t trust, but I trust deconz and ZHA fine enough in this context).
Same here. Not having a path to the internet by default is lovely. Local data stays local without any extra config.
I still don’t understand what theoretical advantage it has over x10 for things that are plugged in. (In practical terms the HA support for X10 was apparently pretty bad last time I looked)
I have been doing home automation for almost 30 years. I started with x10, and still have a few x10 devices deployed in my house, so I think I’m in a position to know what I’m talking about here.
There are a few major advantages Zigbee and Zwave have over x10, namely:
- The Zs are fast. X10 takes a quarter to half a second at best to travel through the house and activate the device. If there is noise on your powerline, it takes longer. Sometimes messages are missed. This is old tech, and there isn’t a lot of error correction or signal ack.
- Phase Bridge. X10 uses your house power line to send signals. You may or may not know this, but (at least in the US) your power is split into one or more electrical phases. The X10 signals are absolutely terrible at crossing from one phase to the other, and it isn’t always obvious when you plug something in which phase that outlet is on. This leads to a lot of troubleshooting. Things like phase bridges exist to solve this, but they aren’t terribly reliable.
- Wireless. The Zs don’t need to be connected to your powerline to function. There are no powerline x10 devices that run on batteries for obvious reasons. This allows for a lot more versitility.
- No setting house/device codes. If you have ever actually used X10, you know each device has its own house and device code that needs to be selected (usually with a tiny screwdriver while crawling on the floor in the dark, but I digress). This is all handled digitally and is more or less plug and play with zigbee and zwave.
- Encryption. Any idiot with an extension cord and some free time can connect to a power jack on the outside of your home and turn whatever they want on and off with X10. There is no authentication whatsoever. Ironic, considering the company most known for X10 devices sold security equipment.
Now there do exist some wireless battery powered x10 devices (the MS16A motion sensor, for example or the DS10A door sensor). These are actually fairly solid devices, and I still use a good number of them in my home. (I have many DS16As that have been in daily use for more than 20 years)
It isn’t all bad, and there is no reason to throw it all out if it works for you. However, if you are buying new gear to automate with, there isn’t really a compelling reason to go back to X10. the modern solutions are cheaper, faster, more secure, and easier to work with.
