Tech workers react to UPS drivers landing a $170,000 a year package with a mixture of anger and admiration::Some tech workers questioned whether UPS drivers deserved high pay — others jumped in to note the importance of the jobs and harsh working conditions.
The amount of shit a delivery driver puts up with? They certainly deserve it. Good on them, we should all be well paid, and thinking otherwise is Stockholm syndrome.
Meanwhile software devs? We sit around in a comfy meeting room sipping coffee and are occasionally a bit stressed. Sure there’s exceptions, but most devs I know have it pretty good while making a shit ton of money
And I will add that you also deserve to be well paid and have your own stressors and those matter too. We all deserve a good wage. What’s the point otherwise?
But I’m especially glad because delivery drivers are often treated poorly.
Also make sure you add the amount of schooling, training, and certifications that you as a Tech industry worker are expected to shell out for to get ahead, gone are the years where a high school diploma and some skills gets you in the door in Tech. Also the hours we need to put in.
So sure it’s not as physically demanding as delivery driving, but it is absolutely mentally demanding and time consuming. Most things in tech are also things the average person isn’t interested in learning, so it’s not like a delivery driver can go and code or engineer some kind of solution for complex IT problems or environments, but a developer/IT worker can absolutely get out there and deliver packages if they had to for some reason.
Either way, good on the UPS folks, now it’s time to take that and leverage it across the board for all of the other career paths.
Your response implies that tech workers are mentally more fit than those who work for UPS. This is flatly untrue, if tech workers are so damn smart, why don’t we unionize? We would make a ton more money, have better work life balance, and job security! It’s the same story for every industry, unions are the antidote to capitalism death cult.
I think they were more so arguing about the costs of the training itself. Those loans aren’t free for a lot of people, and scholarships aren’t unlimited.
A lot of people don’t have time to work while they’re in school, so those loans can also take on a pretty nasty interest rate.
I’m of the mindset that people who work hard deserve good money. If a job is something that most people can’t or won’t do, companies will usually have to pay more to encourage people to stay and do those jobs. Otherwise, why would people go into debt for schooling and training? Why go through the stress and expenses for no reason? Yes there’s passion for some people, but that doesn’t pay tuition lol
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This is in no way to undermine the argument that UPS drivers deserve every penny they get paid. I am regularly very stressed out by my current client. Consulting can be an absolute bitch.
While my job can be stressful, I switched from contracting to a ft job with a single employer well over a decade ago and never looked back. Have I earned less money over those however many years? Oh, yes. But I work regular days, rarely get hassled, know the system inside and out, and really like my coworkers who are mostly people who have also been there for a very long time.
100%. Besides, a rising tide lifts all boats. Personally I’m thrilled for them. If anything I see this as an agenda piece. “Hey group 1, talk trash about group 2”.
No no you’ve got it all wrong… Workers in group 3 are the real enemy! The capitalists told me so!
Damn, I must have had the wrong dev job. Did one for 13 years where i had to wear flame retardant clothes, drive up mountains in the winter and sit out in the desert in the summer, annual training as a first responder. But I did sip a lot of coffee and have a lot of stress.
Well the one thing that pandemic has taught us is that people are never satisfied no matter how much they get. Before the pandemic, nobody gave a flying shit in the tech world, specifically the devs, about work from home or hybrid work nature. But somehow now they are entitled to it. Still the tech giants obliged and are allowing them to work from home. Now they are pissed that someone who works physically and deliver items to their door steps is earning as much as they are while they sit on their fat asses watching a screen. Sure they have other deadlines and stuff which the drivers won’t have to face, but don’t be so fucking greedy and jealous when someone is getting paid for their hard work.
What are you trying to say? Devs don’t deserve it because they’re not exposed to the same conditions as a UPS driver?
Where’s your class solidarity?
That crab mentality (crabs in a bucket) can be hard to shake but it’s got to go. The Boondocks explained it nicely (short SFW extract from an otherwise NSFW TV programme here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipg4EL_JUyE)
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=ipg4EL_JUyE
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Good bot. Do we do that here?
As far as I’m concerned, why not? Useful bots deserve recognition as well
tech workers: i’m underpaid and everyone else should be too!
fucking unionize already. tired of this crabs-in-a-bucket mentality
Or, perhaps this article is just trying to sow discord between workers.
One of the old tricks in the books to make people despise unions is to take the very best union deals and sensationalize them, so that others hate the union out of jealousy.
Make it appear like the UPS driver is getting paid $170K for 32 hours of work, in a fully A/C’d vehicle on a short, easy route, starting pay, right out of college without a degree, four weeks of vacation yada yada.
When in reality, the $170K probably only kicks in if you take the absolute worst routes, worst shifts (weekend/night) with max overtime and even then, a third of it is retirement, insurance and health care contributions. And you only get the max after 10 or 20 years of service, if they didn’t fire you as you increased.
During an earnings call on Tuesday, UPS CEO Carol Tomé said that by the end of its five-year contract with the Teamsters union, the average full-time UPS driver would make about $170,000 in annual pay and benefits, such as healthcare and pension benefits.
The headline is sensationalized for sure. But the article itself actually makes the point that the tech workers are misunderstanding that the $170k figure includes both salary and benefits.
“This is disappointing, how is possible that a driver makes much more than average Engineer in R&D?” a worker at the autonomous trucking company TuSimple wrote on Blind, an anonymous jop-posting site that verifies users’ employment using their company email. “To get a base salary of $170k you know you need to work hard as an Engineer, this sucks.”
It is important to note that the $170,000 figure represents the entire value of the UPS package, including benefits and does not represent the base salary. Currently, UPS drivers make an average of around $95,000 per year with an additional $50,000 in benefits, according to the company. The average median salary for an engineer in the US is $103,845 with a base pay of about $91,958, according to Glassdoor. And TuSimple research engineers can make between $161,000 to $250,000 in compensation, Glassdoor data shows.
On the whole though this is a useless article covering drama on Blind, wrapped up with a ragebait headline.
On the whole though this is a useless article covering drama on Blind, wrapped up with a ragebait headline.
This is the buried lead. Blind is a negative echo chamber where your posts gets no value if you don’t mention your TC (total compensation). Opinions from there should be taken with a grain of salt.
The phrase is “bury the lede”, but most autocorrect doesn’t like that.
Your point is absolutely valid, nonetheless.
My guy at work is amazing. He’s almost always on time somehow, gets in and out, knows the answer to stupid questions people ask him and has classic rock from a bluetooth speaker in his truck. He deserves every penny, and some damn air conditioning.
What strange math. My healthcare costs are DEDUCTED from my salary
Most places I’ve worked at say “it would cost you 5,000 / month for healthcare, but we’re only charging you $500 / month, so that’s $4,500 / month we’re paying you”
Highly likely.
I think people just don’t realize how underpaid they are. They think that because they make six figures, that means they’re getting paid what they’re worth.
Actually what people don’t realize is what the above poster means between the lines, this is an article by big corp to make the general public angry at unionized organizations.
Bingo. A greedy neoliberal company putting out articles to help greedy neoliberals companies.
They might tolerate competition and superficial disagreements, but the moment something is a threat to profits they have incredible class solidarity.
Companies are not liberal or conservative… They are all capitalist.
They all push neoliberalism because it’s constant failure to deliver on it’s promises makes them rich.
If you were paid what you were worth the company wouldn’t make any money.
Corporations exist by the excess value of their workers’ labor, by definition.
Eh that’s a paradox though. If the company makes no money, there’s no job for you in the first place making you worth nothing.
It’s not a paradox. The money the company makes is profit. Profit is what’s left of revenue after costs are subtracted. People’s pay is a cost.
No you are misunderstanding the roles of labor and capital. If I withhold my labor, then the owners have nothing to sell. If they withhold pay to me, I go to another company with my labor. Capital cannot create value, only labor can.
You can go to another company, but they too wouldn’t exist if they didn’t make money.
Some tech workers. This is just a stupid ragebait piece.
They’re quoting Blind users though, Blind is a cesspool of silicon Valley tech bros. It’s often just a dick measuring contest between FAANG workers about who makes more money.
Fuck off with this class war baiting bullshit
Tech workers need to ask themselves why their boss makes more than them for doing nothing
There’s no way any substantial amount of tech workers are concerned about what UPS workers are making. These kinds of articles are rage bait targeted at “low skill” workers to make them furious at what they perceive to be high salary earners complaining about “blue collar” workers earning more money.
All of this bullshit is a distraction from the fact that the middle class is shrinking at a massive rate and the lower class is being turned against itself so nobody can rightfully blame the rich.
Fuck this article and the hatred it’s designed to generate. This is all bullshit.
“Wait, it’s all bullshit?” points gun “Always has been”
It’s Business Insider. What do you expect?
Tech worker here. I’m gd pleased to bits for anyone making a decent income. Congrats UPS drivers. Do teachers next!
Ah. The anti-union propaganda has begun to stop the tech industry from unionizing, lol.
They are scared they will and with good reason. A strong union will level the playing field.
You’d think these complainers would realize it’s great when other jobs get a massive raise… because those engineers can now say “Why should I work here and deal with your nonsense when UPS drivers are making near 100K in low cost of living income areas?”
Like, please please please let the cashiers at walmart start making 30 dollars an hour so I can tell my boss that I need a raise or I’m dipping to walmart.
Holy hell, I wish more people got this concept.
They don’t have to worry too much about us tech workers unionizing because the tech world is full of more introverts on average than other (especially blue collar) fields. And a lot of us are constantly scared of getting fired or replaced.
So many of us still believe the lie that our individual hard work will be rewarded.
It’s going to be a while.
I was fantasizing a bit about becoming wealthy enough to stop working, and it occurred to me that the actual best thing to do if I’m ever in that position would be to start talking with my coworkers about unionizing. Then maybe even get fired for it and sue for more money. Money I’d probably plow back into unionizing tech workers.
I like your way o thinking
As a tech worker, I say good for them.
As a fellow tech worker, I agree. Probably most tech workers would agree, but since that’s boring, this article focuses on the opinion of just “some tech workers on social media”. So dumb.
Like 3 ancient jaded guys that are working on network infrastructure for a small hospital in Montana posted on Xwitter that they’re upset. 10000 bots reposted it…now it’s newsworthy.
Xwitter
I’m going with Xitter pronounced sh-ITT-er That makes tweets Xits pronounced sh-IT-s
“some tech workers on social media”.
“some tech workers on blind”. Even worse
As a tech worker in Europe, the concept of “deserving” or “not deserving” a specific number has always been a total joke. Your salary is like 80% determined by location alone.
Any notion of “merit” (whatever that even means, there isn’t even a good way of measuring it in many industries) has always been only very loosely correlated with compensation.
So if you can get it, go get it.
This is a little misleading. It’s $170k in pay and benefits, not just salary. Still, UPS drivers deserve it and this will make everyone’s experience with UPS so much better.
“This is disappointing, how is possible that a driver makes much more than average Engineer in R&D?”
Because the engineer is being exploited and refuses to unionize.
“To get a base salary of $170k you know you need to work hard as an Engineer, this sucks.”
Bitch, UPS workers work harder than I ever did as an electronics engineer.
“To get a base salary of $170k you know you need to work hard as an Engineer, this sucks.”
Bitch, UPS workers work harder than I ever did as an electronics engineer.
If he wants the $170k so badly, he should go get a job as a driver then.
“To get a base salary of $170k you know you need to work hard as an Engineer, this sucks.”
As someone who has worked as a UPS driver and now as a software developer, I can say that the UPS drivers definitely work harder than your average engineer.
That quote is also deftly ignoring the fact that you’re generally paid for the value you generate, not how hard to you work.
Generally you’re paid the least they can get away with (with some variance in what they think that is).
It generally requires a union to get paid closer to the value you generate.
Fucking truth, especially for software engineers. I spent most of today debating whether to use
npmorpnpmfor some project that’s probably just going to get mothballed anyway.I mean I know my worth, but I definitely don’t work even 1/23rd as hard as even the laziest delivery driver imaginable. Even pretending to be a delivery driver is more work than my actual job.
I’m starting to think people should be forced to have at least 1 year of experience in a, so called, blue-collar job before they are allowed to have an office job.
As a tech worker in rhe U.S. we are definitely not being exploited. I’m all for unions but we’re doing just fine.
Narrator, as Elon dances over Twitter headquarters with strobe lights and Google charges employees $99 per night to stay at their own hotel:
“They were being exploited.”
Let’s just say that some tech workers in the US are being exploited more than others. A lot more
I hear what you’re saying: we’re very well compensated. But think of the profit your team helps generate for your employer. It is a lot more than the combined salaries of the people who actually make the product / service.
As one of the tech workers: fuck yeah, good for them for negotiating well, and getting what they’re owed.
This is also why most jobs should be unionized
Maybe. I know shipping things via UPS is about to get a lot more expensive, and maybe it should be.
Yeah, if shipping gets more expensive that means that shipping was cheap because of exploitation of people. I don’t know about anyone else, I personally wouldn’t want that.
Exactly. This logic can also be applied to fast food, hard labor, etc…
I have worked as a driver helper in the past. This pay makes sense. It’s a demanding job mentally and physically. With the pay being good it also means people work really hard to get that job and really hard to keep it. Congratulations to them.
As a tech worker, good for them. Why would I be opposed to someone else getting paid more, especially if they’re being paid by a private company whose services I enjoy?
My guess the naysayers are toxic tech bros. There are some really toxic tech bros. More accurate, there are some really toxic people in tech only as a means to a high salary.
Same reason straight people are opposed to gay marriage? Who the fuck knows
Blind is a tech bro incel cesspool sometimes.
Wow good for UPS workers. As a tech worker I can say I’m genuinely happy for them. They have a hard ass job. A win for labor is a win for labor, regardless of which type.
And it’s not like their win is our loss. Why would we fight amongst ourselves? It’s the ultra-rich we should be sizing up.
If we divide, we’ll be conquered. That wisom is at least two thousand years old by now. Better to unite and defy.
Exactly. This shouldn’t give anyone any feelings besides, “wow, I need to organize workers in my field too.” Full stop.
These people are no different than the ones who were pissed that “burger flippers” were trying to make $15/hr minimum. Like…mind your own business—and by that I mean, right your business because you’re underpaid too.
Pushing tens of pounds around in the heat everyday is hard, expecially inside a van without AC.
Let’s just hope tech workers will be smart enough to unionize and organize like the UPS Chads did.
It’s a good objective, but it would take a lot to make it happen. It’s significantly more challenging for tech workers to effectively unionize en masse for several reasons:
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Tech isn’t monopsonistic, or even close to it; there isn’t a single large employer… even the biggest tech companies employ only a relatively small fraction of the tech workforce. That means separate unionization efforts at thousands of big companies, not at one.
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Tech job functions are much more widely varied than “delivery driver”; job responsibilities differ greatly, complexity and education requirements differ greatly, workplace expectations differ greatly … think of the difference between help desk, front end dev, network security engineering, data science and DBA. Collective bargaining is harder the more varied the needs of the collective are.
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Job mobility is really high in the tech sector … in other words, tech employees (by and large) have access to many prospective employers (especially with the prevalence of remote work), and tech employers to a wide geographic pool of talent. That means if your San Francisco office seems on the path to unionization, you can shift work to your Chennai office.
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It also means that, when the working conditions at a tech company suck, a lot of tech workers can easily jump ship. It’s hard to get a union going when your voters can easily quit and go work someplace nicer, rather than take the more difficult path of staying and trying to force your employer to improve.
Again, I think highly of unions and would really like to see more effective unionization efforts in tech – I just want folks to go into it eyes wide open and intelligently, vs throwing up their hands and saying, “Why don’t tech workers unionize?”
Yea i understand, for reference my father works and worked his whole life in IT, my grandma worked as union rep and I’m interested in both worlds, I get that the struggle is real, the sector is young. Even just 30 years ago there was no IT market, for reference the transport industry is as old as time and yet this historic contract was won in 2023 AD, we just gotta push and organize.
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I see we are trying to sow some tension between working class people here eh?
As a tech worker, I do almost jack shit and make deep into the six figures. Honestly, I’d be fine if UPS drivers made more than me, good on them.
Frankly, in terms of total compensation, pay them more.
Whenever I see a delivery driver or pole worker or whatever, especially on a shitty day, from the window of my cozy home office, the same thought crosses my mind
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