I know there are ways to install software outside of aptitude on debian/ubuntu, (add repo, or build, or download binary, or possibly flatpak/snap/etc).
But being able to download *.deb files was one of the nicest aspect of using a debian based distros and now I’m seeing more and more projects include all distros except deb files.
Someone correct me but I vaguely recall that distributing debs is no longer recommended by debian itself?
- Am I wrong, and have I only co-incidentally stumbled on projects that don’t distribute debs?
- I am right and this seems like a mis-step, removing one of the most beginner friendly features that helped propagate debian based distros?
Flamesuit on.
I believe that deb packages should be first-class citizens in every project that distributes binaries since Debian and its derivatives have the largest user base in the Linux ecosystem.
I have mixed feelings for containerized applications since everything depends on your actual use case.
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Containers were first used by sysadmins to improve a system’s security through isolation of apps and services. This is of little concern to most end users.
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Then came the developers who started using containers to streamline the deployment of apps and their respective dependencies. Again, this is hardly an end user scenario.
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Finally, the light bulb moment: Containers can also be distributed to end users in the form of Flatpaks, Snaps, Appimages, etc.
They can be run like regular apps, with the inherited benefits I’ve described above (isolation + inclusion of dependencies). So, what could go wrong?
These benefits come at a cost:
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Isolation: clunky system integration (wrong themes, missing icons, inaccesible files). These can be fixed, of course, but not everyone wants to be bothered with additional tinkering.
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Dependencies: Having redundant libraries and/or additional runtimes in your hd may be a deal breaker for some, but I suspect less technically inclined users won’t mind the overhead.
I still love the idea of a distro-agnostic package format, but in the end, the issues I’ve previously described, add unnecessary complexity to the user experience. This is why I don’t think native packages are going away anytime soon.
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I have 4 .deb packages that I have downloaded from github. Other than those I try to use apt first if there isn’t a package I search for a flatpak. The only reason I have snap installed is to play with Firefox Beta. Packages: 2839 (dpkg), 45 (flatpak), 7 (snap)
I see a lot of people doing flatpacks now, fwiw.
Only thing I install via deb these days is, like, Discord I think.
Honestly wish we could just not use flatpak/snap/appImage/whatever due to the wasted space. I’d really rather use a binary and reuse my shared libraries 90% of the time. The only exception was docker/snap were handy for things like a quick test for nextcould or home assistant. Then again I run mostly FreeBSD nowadays so I’m probably an old man telling kids to get off my lawn at this point.
@socphoenix Until you need two versions of Python because… reasons. When building software it also becomes a hassle: You must have the specific dynamically linked environment or your binary is useless. Solutions are either statically linked builds or containers, flatpaks, etc… Containers can cache dependencies as layers to preserve space however. Besides, space is cheap. Sorry for watering your lawn, but it was kind of dry.
Something that I have ran into is the mono runtime for gaming, it has many complicated dependinces which can easily conflict with the main system. I just ended up making full containers for older mono versions to get old games to work anyways.
Ubuntu debs often didn’t work on Debian anyway.
I’d rather not install third-party debs.
From an app developer and a distro maintainer point of view snaps/flatpacks are just better in almost every regard. It seems insane that each distro spends time building and maintaining packages that should just be in a container and ready to go.
There are some disadvantages but would you rather the developers spent time fixing bugs and adding cool features or would you rather they spend their time packaging stuff up to support half a dozen different distro packaging formats. These are the choices devs are having to make but there’s no need- put it in a container, have a stable environment that runs everywhere, done.
Why should they even package it at all? Just distribute the source code and let the distributors handle it themselves.
Man, this became so bad in the last five years or so.
Just bought a digital drawing tablet from a manufacturer who claim their products have Linux support. Plugged it in and went to their download lage. Of course, there would not be a link to their GitHub project and instead I got a .deb and a .rpm, which is totally useless to me because my system is neither Debian/Ubuntu nor even glibc.
