I think being “PC” requires more work. Not that, that is a bad thing.
They were low hanging fruit back in the day, part of what made them funny was them being “bad” people were like “oh I shouldn’t laugh at this”. But things change.
Ive likely been in over 1000 comedy gigs and likely watched twice as many, I’ve toured a comedy tour and done a bit of TV. Not that I’m the number 1 expert but hopefully that qualifies me a little
People often get the concept of what is “allowed” wrong.
Truly, anything can be funny — with a caveat, even the most taboo subjects: rape, the holocaust, the n-word… But it requires a lot of thought, talent, practice, luck, risk and lived experience to tackle those.
In the same way that I can read the Wikipedia on nuclear meltdowns but you shouldn’t call me first if one actually happens, if you don’t have lived experience of an event, you take a massive risk when you do comedy about it.
If you dont have that lived experience, I’d call on the reader to reflect on how good a movie about the military is without someone knowing the difference between a colonel and a captain, or what happens if you get shot. You expect the author to have done their research, and the best authors have done incredible amounts and are very accurate.
It’s not that you can’t joke about XYZ - it’s that if XYZ is a topic that could cause people to stop having a good time and it’s your job to make them have a good time, the expectation is on you to artfully craft that entertainment and joyful experience for all and any who are watching your work.
I saw a few excellent stand up bits from women about their sexual assault/rape experiences. I’ve seen excellent stand up bits from men criticizing rape culture, media reactions to rape, rape as a war crime. I have never seen an excellent stand up bit defending, recommending, reenacting, or pretending/admitting to have committed rape.
Same with cancer, incest, anti-semitism, racism…
It’s an art form, there are formulae to follow of course (rising action/falling action, punch word of the punch line, slingshot structure, call backs, the dip) but there is no unified formula that if you diss trans people or people Downs Syndrome in this exact way you can get away with it. Just doesn’t exist. Like how there’s no good way to get your dick out in the office.
Now if you are a member of a community, and you work hard on creating an entertainment experience that makes people comfortable and you’re talented, likeable, practiced, skilled, and lucky - people might laugh. But then, also you get 10 seconds before they expect something else - is it worth all that to craft the prior 10 seconds when you could also joke about literally anything else?
I am however obligated to point to a Jimmy Carr bit where he explains punching down and the waiver for demeaning any group you’re part of… followed by “So pedophiles, right? They’re always fucking immature assholes.”
Jimmy Carr is also very good at what he does, and, in my opinion - does tread that line really well. I dont mind admitting - better than I could.
He also lives in the world of satire / the boufant / the grotesque whereas none of cast of Seinfeld really does. And, as that’s the world he lives in, expectations are matched.
Also, he likely couldn’t do his most contentious material if he wasn’t famous and was doing a 15 min set on a cruise line.
The skill matters more than the fame. Look at Hannibal Buress swinging for Cosby when he was just some guy. Or, arguably, Bill Burr telling Philadelphia to go fuck themselves, for twelve straight minutes.
Standup really can get away with anything - if the comic understands their audience. Which is why it’s so utterly pathetic that all these right-wing jerkoffs keep fumbling the most basic expectations and then crying about it for other right-wing jerkoffs.
The other side of this is that a shock comic telling an offensive joke at a show where everyone in attendance has consented to shock comedy, does not give you the right to tell the same joke at the office Christmas party. It’s honestly shocking how many times I’ve heard “you can’t be offended by a south park joke” from otherwise well adjusted people.
I think being “PC” requires more work. Not that, that is a bad thing.
They were low hanging fruit back in the day, part of what made them funny was them being “bad” people were like “oh I shouldn’t laugh at this”. But things change.
Ive likely been in over 1000 comedy gigs and likely watched twice as many, I’ve toured a comedy tour and done a bit of TV. Not that I’m the number 1 expert but hopefully that qualifies me a little
People often get the concept of what is “allowed” wrong.
Truly, anything can be funny — with a caveat, even the most taboo subjects: rape, the holocaust, the n-word… But it requires a lot of thought, talent, practice, luck, risk and lived experience to tackle those.
In the same way that I can read the Wikipedia on nuclear meltdowns but you shouldn’t call me first if one actually happens, if you don’t have lived experience of an event, you take a massive risk when you do comedy about it.
If you dont have that lived experience, I’d call on the reader to reflect on how good a movie about the military is without someone knowing the difference between a colonel and a captain, or what happens if you get shot. You expect the author to have done their research, and the best authors have done incredible amounts and are very accurate.
It’s not that you can’t joke about XYZ - it’s that if XYZ is a topic that could cause people to stop having a good time and it’s your job to make them have a good time, the expectation is on you to artfully craft that entertainment and joyful experience for all and any who are watching your work.
I saw a few excellent stand up bits from women about their sexual assault/rape experiences. I’ve seen excellent stand up bits from men criticizing rape culture, media reactions to rape, rape as a war crime. I have never seen an excellent stand up bit defending, recommending, reenacting, or pretending/admitting to have committed rape.
Same with cancer, incest, anti-semitism, racism…
It’s an art form, there are formulae to follow of course (rising action/falling action, punch word of the punch line, slingshot structure, call backs, the dip) but there is no unified formula that if you diss trans people or people Downs Syndrome in this exact way you can get away with it. Just doesn’t exist. Like how there’s no good way to get your dick out in the office.
Now if you are a member of a community, and you work hard on creating an entertainment experience that makes people comfortable and you’re talented, likeable, practiced, skilled, and lucky - people might laugh. But then, also you get 10 seconds before they expect something else - is it worth all that to craft the prior 10 seconds when you could also joke about literally anything else?
Excellent take, well stated.
I am however obligated to point to a Jimmy Carr bit where he explains punching down and the waiver for demeaning any group you’re part of… followed by “So pedophiles, right? They’re always fucking immature assholes.”
Jimmy Carr is also very good at what he does, and, in my opinion - does tread that line really well. I dont mind admitting - better than I could.
He also lives in the world of satire / the boufant / the grotesque whereas none of cast of Seinfeld really does. And, as that’s the world he lives in, expectations are matched.
Also, he likely couldn’t do his most contentious material if he wasn’t famous and was doing a 15 min set on a cruise line.
The skill matters more than the fame. Look at Hannibal Buress swinging for Cosby when he was just some guy. Or, arguably, Bill Burr telling Philadelphia to go fuck themselves, for twelve straight minutes.
Standup really can get away with anything - if the comic understands their audience. Which is why it’s so utterly pathetic that all these right-wing jerkoffs keep fumbling the most basic expectations and then crying about it for other right-wing jerkoffs.
The other side of this is that a shock comic telling an offensive joke at a show where everyone in attendance has consented to shock comedy, does not give you the right to tell the same joke at the office Christmas party. It’s honestly shocking how many times I’ve heard “you can’t be offended by a south park joke” from otherwise well adjusted people.
You also don’t have to be completely PC if you’re funny.
If you’re making fun of marginalized groups and it’s not even funny, that’s when people start complaining imo