Cash payment: Cash limits in Europe
www.evz.de
If you want to pay large sums of money abroad in the EU, for example when buying a car, there are a few rules you need to follow. This is because many EU countries have cash limits. This means that cash payments can only be made up to a certain amount.

cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/11683421

The EU has quietly imposed cash limits EU-wide:

  • €3k limit on anonymous payments
  • €10k limit regardless (link which also lists state-by-state limits).

From the jailed¹ article:

An EU-wide maximum limit of €10 000 is set for cash payments, which will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money.

It will also strip dignity and autonomy from non-criminal adults, you nannying assholes!

In addition, according to the provisional agreement, obliged entities will need to identify and verify the identity of a person who carries out an occasional transaction in cash between €3 000 and €10 000.

The hunt for “money launderers” and “terrorists” is not likely meaningfully facilitated by depriving the privacy of people involved in small €3k transactions. It’s a bogus excuse for empowering a police surveillance state. It’s a shame how quietly this apparently happened. No news or chatter about it.

¹ the EU’s own website is an exclusive privacy-abusing Cloudflare site inaccessible several demographics of people. Sad that we need to rely on the website of a US library to get equitable access to official EU communication.

update

The Pirate party’s reaction is spot on. They also point out that cryptocurrency is affected. Which in the end amounts to forced banking.

#warOnCash

  • unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
    606·
    4 months ago

    This is stupid, money in that range is irrelevant on a national scale. The real laundering and robbing happens in the millions and billions and is committed by people in suits gifting each other yachts and real estate.

    • misk@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      208·
      4 months ago

      Ultra rich don’t evade taxes, they avoid them via good accountants legally. What this is supposed to prevent is small/medium tax fraud which really adds up.

      • activistPnk@slrpnk.netOPEnglish
        81·
        4 months ago

        But as @somguy69 said, money laundering is not committed by the middle and lower classes. Using anti-terror tools against someone who neglects to declare some small income. It’s absurdly disproportionate and takes our option to be free from banks away. It’s a terrible trade-off.

        • misk@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          12·
          4 months ago

          3k EUR is not small income.

          I’m not even sure what we’re trading it for. Illusion of privacy from your own state?

          • activistPnk@slrpnk.netOPEnglish
            3·
            4 months ago

            Considering $us 1 has about the same spending power as €1, €3k covers room and board in Utrecht (the cheapest indexed city in NL) for about ~11 days:

            https://aoprals.state.gov/web920/per_diem_action.asp?MenuHide=1&CountryCode=1101

            And min wage is set at €2150 (take-home pay, so likely ~€3k gross). So yes, ⅓ of a month.

            It’s a show stopper for me. I will not work for that amount because it’s a small fraction of my market value. That nixes Netherlands, Belgium, France, and Spain. I’m fine with tax declarations so the real limit for me working in the EU is the €10k limit. But that’s still a pay cut. And it limits me to Germany and perhaps a few other countries. So working full-time in Europe has essentially become a non-starter for me.

            I’m not even sure what we’re trading it for. Illusion of privacy from your own state?

            Reread the thread. Privacy from Google, Microsoft, Apple, Cloudflare, Paypal/Zittle, JP Morgan Chase, Visa, Mastercard, the telecoms, countless payment processors, as well as unwarranted gov. snooping.

            And that just touches on the confidentiality aspect of privacy. Yet privacy is actually more about control.

            • misk@sopuli.xyzEnglish
              2·
              4 months ago

              Can you rent a flat anonymously? Doesn’t that have to be reported for tax anyway? All of examples I’m seeing here are flat out tax fraud heaven.

              • activistPnk@slrpnk.netOPEnglish
                1·
                4 months ago

                Can you rent a flat anonymously?

                I would hope so, as far as the EU goes. If the EU were to force leases to be registered and to name all occupants, it would be absurdly over interventionalist and it would be a blatant privacy abuse. Belgium requires leases to be registered but then the registration process makes email address a required field. So if someone does not have an email address registration is not possible (despite registration being a legal obligation – would be interesting to see what happens in court when someone is prosecuted for not registering due to not having an email address). Apart from that, there is no rule that all occupants must be listed on the lease. And cash rent payments are legal.

                It would also be surprisingly extreme if hotels were forced to collect identities of their guests. They likely do it anyway to know who to go after for damages, but a gov mandate would be excessively interventionalist.

                • misk@sopuli.xyzEnglish
                  2·
                  4 months ago

                  Ok, this is pointless, you’re advocating for tax fraud outright.

                  • activistPnk@slrpnk.netOPEnglish
                    1·
                    4 months ago

                    I’m not sure how you get such a perversely twisted idea from my thesis. Nothing in that comment you replied to advocates tax fraud. People should have the freedom to boycott banks. They should have the right to boycott Google and Microsoft. Participation in the private sector marketplace should be optional. Privacy rights enshrined in human rights law are an important component to my thesis. Your contempt for human rights is shameful. To be clear–

                    Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 12:

                    No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

                    International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, Article 17:

                    1. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his honour and reputation.

                    (emphasis mine)

            • Miaou@jlai.luEnglish
              11·
              4 months ago

              I don’t know what those numbers are supposed to be used for, but they are certainly not to be used for estimating cost of living.

              • activistPnk@slrpnk.netOPEnglish
                2·
                4 months ago

                Per diem is an estimate of room and board, so indeed it’s a city-specific measure of cost of living. The minimum wage figures are a nationwide amount that doesn’t deviate too far from cost of living (targets a “living wage”), but it obviously has the bluntness of being fixed nationwide. But as you can see from the per diem variations, there are vast differences from one city to the next. The min wage is likely above living wages in Utrecht, but below living wages in Amsterdam.

                • Miaou@jlai.luEnglish
                  1·
                  4 months ago

                  My point is that my salary is below the per diem of where I live yet I’m anything but poor. I would estimate the value to be half what’s announced on that page.

    • calcopiritus@lemmy.worldEnglish
      22·
      4 months ago

      10k maximum means everything above 10k. 1 million is still above 10k.

      Yes, it doesn’t affect asset donations, but just because it’s not a theft-ending law doesn’t make it useless.

      • unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        31·
        4 months ago

        While the limits are way too low imo, i agree that there is a need of sorts. Whoever i think any legislation like this should cone AFTER we have taken care of the major offenders. The order is just wrong.

        It like allocating police resources to illegal lemonade stands while there is a mass murder running through town, killing someone every hour.