I appreciate you taking feedback on board, and I apologise if I was harsh about this and I didn’t mean for this to be aimed at you individually. It was a general frustration with general decision making and communication. It’s not the first time I’ve raised this and I care about Lemmy, it just gets frustrating when it feels the feedback is getting stonewalled.

I appreciate the position on consideration of refederation. it does make sense to consider it post 0.19.

So I suggested how you could do comms better, and also a sensible approach to defederation decisions, and that is your response.

Rather than thinking, “oh, is there some way we can do this better?”, just get defensive and blame the person giving feedback.

It’s human to err, but to refuse to learn, well that’s quiet something… I had expected a more mature response.

Considering my original point was about how users on Lemmy were an after thought. Not worth factoring in to decision or consulting, you sure aren’t really do a good job refuting it…

Lemmy world was the instance I originally joined when the whole exodus kicked off and others closed their doors. I was very grateful and had enormous good will for it. I never expected in the space of several months to have 180’d on it…

I don’t need to and I choose not to use reddit or twitter. lemm.ee are doing a great job. lemmy.ml is also a great option. It’s a shame that they’re nailing it better than world is.

Was a topic labelled 0.19 upgrade and something along the lines of “0.19 has been released by Lemmy. We are going to be waiting a few weeks to see the stability of this. Once we are satisfied, we will update here with more information.”

And “due to certain federation bugs, we are going to hold back on upgrade to 0.19 until these are ironed out, we will update when we plan to do this”.

It’s not hard, and it seems like you’re coming up with excuses rather than considering feedback…

Hexbear defederation happened before they even federated. No consultation, or discussion, just “oh, we decided to do this, and whether you care or not, ah well”. lemm.ee had a post, reasons for, against and welcomed the communities view on this. Maybe you guys need to check them out and learn from them. I think it’s only 1 guy too, so probably more than repeatable as a process…

Considering this is the most staffed and resourced instance, you’d expect a reasonable standard.

"I’m sure many of you fine folks have been wondering why we have not upgraded to version 0.19.X yet.

The whole team here has been getting asked this question quite a bit, from both members of the community and other instance admins. We want everyone to know, YES, we will upgrade to version 0.19."

The issue here was never that decision, which on the whole seems sensible. It was the lack of comms. If there had been an announcement of that plan or delayed after say a week or 2, you’d probably have less of those questions. Users are stakeholders, and talking only to devs and other instance runners while ignoring users shows the level of respect you have for the users of the instance…

The ironic thing, is the communication and openness at the start was the best thing about Lemmy.World, and then later down the line, it just became an after event to communicate to users. “Decided to defederate x, y and z on Discord.”. Silence on attacks for months, and silence on upgrade plans.

There is many roles on Lemmy.World, and communications probably needs more focus…

How did ee, and sh.itjust.works grow? Because they were open. You have a short memory if you don’t remember how many instances closed, during API blackout.

I didn’t want to pick an instance that was running on a thinkpad that would get switched off when someone got bored.

Federation was confusing for many. Many used the join Lemmy website and options that were general purpose open instances that were English speaking and open were not huge. People made decisions in a short period of time and many went with world, ee, and sh.it. It isn’t baffling. It is also no shock that people set up communities where they register and may be big enough to survive. Who would create a community that disappears in 3 weeks.

You painting users as brainless sheep does nothing more than give you some feeling superiority. Maybe your fragile ego needs that. I’ll help if you need it. Congratulations, you’re so smart and clever. More so than most. Thanks for stepping on your soap box and imparting your wisdom/red hot takes upon us.

ee wasn’t big originally, but it was one of the few instances that were big enough to not dissappear, run by a competent sys admin, and small enough to not be affected by the big instance performance challenges, while keep registrations open when many instances shut the door on newcomers. Basically, ee, sh.itjust.works and lemmy.world were there main options for people moving across. Their sensible stewardship has led to growth, and trust is why it has kept growing.

Federation means people can choose, and they do. It doesn’t mean everything will be exactly the same size and stay small. An instance needs good sysadmin who will investigate issues an liase with dev teams to get them fixed. People will gravitate to those instances run by talented devs.

There is most definitely a circus, but absolutely no fun to be found here.

I resurrected: Degoogle!degoogle@lemmy.ml and have been trying to grow it a bit.

It was on 3.56k subscribers and 152 active monthly users on 21/7/23. 117 posts.

Now 4.54k, 333 active monthly users, 135 posts.

Best techniques I found was reach out to larger subs in a similar area with similar interests, link to their communities in your description and ask if they could do the same to help users find what they like. Also crossposting is great from larger areas. You can see crossposts from the main post and it’s easy to click and deep dive into there. Crossposting about 3 posts which resonated with the users did most of the heavy lifting.

They’re not forcing you to be on the official mobile app? That’s nice of them :).

All the 10s of posts about this already and you think he’s going to say “oh, didn’t think about this, good idea”. Or you know it’s something that they have already made a call on and you’re just badgering and harassing them over it?

I cannot stand the tankies, but I prefer them to folk like you. I’m yet to see anothing from lemmygrad in a month on lemmy, so get over it and block it if you see it and don’t want to.

Oh, and an interesting follow on, if someone runs a technology consultancy, can they post about their business successes and issues? They’re in the tech business after all. Or is this simply limited to the who’s who of bad actors? The big, 3 4, 10, 15? What is the cut off?

You mean like non-reactionary content? Stuff that teaches us, and we learn, and we feel hope? Quality rather than hyperbole.

It’s not just an inconvenience. I unfollowed the sub because the quality of the content was poor. I want to learn about technology, not social media companies and every minutiae about their employees bowel movements. I’m getting more value from Linux than from here, despite the fact some of it is more low level than I’d like.

Has anyone proven a technology for that long and that consistently that it is safe. I’ve seen quite the contrary and sensible legislators expect a human there in case of issue.I’d expect that for years before a reasonable level ofconfidentce is reached.

I would agree with this. Purpose of the application rather than technical implementation defines its use. Though it can do many things Signal and WA also do

I do agree with you. It’s a universe of federated software and matrix is federated. ActivityPub is an implementation of an idea.

Lemm ee c boobies perhaps?

Be the change you want to see.

You thought they were the leaders. They’re the followers, staying near the crowd.

Building communities is hard and takes time.

I wonder if this came from engineering or the marketing department.

I’m getting “Let’s do this, and if it fails (which it will), it’ll look like we’re really confident in our self-drive and are a challenger in the market” vibes.

Even if you have excellent self-drive, there is no logical reason not to have a backup steering wheel just to intervene in case. Tbh, I had no idea they were even in the self-drive market which may be their true problem. No one really knows.

It isn’t the people. It’s just if I already decided not to use Facebook or twitter. Why would I get back into bed with the devil on an experimental product?