Thank a christian for this.

The wester religion of… islam?

Without getting too much into it, the Bible says that Mosaic law is superceded by the Law Covenant at the time of Jesus’ death, and thus is no longer in affect.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”

Matthew 5:17–18

It’s still in effect according to your prophet and the son of your god, but you surely know more than him.

The reason I ignored this topic before is because it has absolutely nothing to do with the original discussion, which was “the Bible does not teach torture”.

You said: “The Bible doesn’t teach dominating and torturing people, for one.”

I gave to plenty of evidence, from the bible directly, that it teaches dominating and torturing people, you just choose to disregard facts because it does not agree with your narrative, which seems to be an epidemic with you religious types.

Ah, so if I said “everyone deserves respect” you would argue in favour of treating everyone terribly?

That (unlike slavery) is not a despicable things, so I won’t argue against it. Maybe try understanding my argument before trying (and failing) to come up with a snappy reply.

Like I said, if you knew his content from Hardcore History, any of it, you would understand how ridiculous your statement is.

Again, I won’t buy any of his content. I don’t care for slavery apoligists.

But just wait until you find out that some of the greatest minds regarded in science were Christian and believed in God.

I’m keenly aware that christians forced their religion on everybody they could when it was acceptable. Thankfully, it’s less acceptable now, but we still have ways to go. Thanks for reminding me how christianity pushed back the progess of science and humanity by centuries.

Are you genuinely still asserting that I ever said “slavery was a good thing”? At this point you’re either just a troll or just really thick.

You did quote the wikipedia article that said that…

No. I suggested his stuff once, and then just kept laughing (not mockingly, I genuinely found it funny) at how absurd your attempts to discredit Hardcore History is, based purely on your bias towards me.

I looked up his name and his christian podcast came up, I went to his website where he is selling is podcast episodes.

I didn’t need to discredit him, he did that all on his own.

The sad thing is that you might actually think I believe that,

So you just argue for this you don’t belive in and agree with?

This is you, by the way:

Is it a good thing that people go on welfare, or is it preferable to starving? Again, this is where we get into the definition of the word. Think about it, how would it be preferable to be mistreated, beaten, and abused?

The Bible says homosexuality is displeasing to God because it’s not how he intended romantic relationships to be.

And he is a homophobe as well, what a surprise…

It doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that you can’t argue the topic about slavery in the Bible on its own merit, is it?

I would think you really didn’t need to argue the fact that slavery is a bad thing, but the bible and you seem to disagree.

The arguments was about if the bible teaches to dominate and torture people, by the way, not just about slavery.

I just though that you’d agree that slavery counted as dominating and torturing people. How wrong I was.

Surely you wouldn’t try to discredit the source material in order to undermine your opponents arguments. Not you, never.

Well, if the “source material” is a supposedly supernatural book and religion, and a pastor’s podcast for that religion, I really don’t need to undermine it, it already undermined itself.

I’ll read it, but I won’t reply if you keep misrepresenting what I’ve said and try to put words in my mouth.

How brave of you to leave an argument you lost.

I don’t misrepresent what you said, you’re just insinuating I did, becuase you realized your arguments sound really bad when you put them out there.

The judge’s sentence called for 12 months plus one day in federal prison for each of the six charges, which he allowed to run concurrently.

What…

All of this is true. Hence why the “children” (these acts of abuse) of Babylon the Great (false religion) need to be dashed against a wall.

Of course.

And when the bible says all homosexuals must be killed, what metaphor is that? Or is it missed context?

You have staked your arguments to be the complete opposite of what I have to say.

I tend to do that when the person I’m arguing against supports such despicable things.

The fact that you immediately dismissed Hardcore History as a “religious podcast” and still maintain that it “whitewashes” anything, all without even looking up the podcast

I looked up dan carlin and he has a some christian podcast called Word Christian Fellowship podcast. But sure, not religious or bias.

telling that you are unable to be objective in the slightest in this discussion.

Unable to be objective by agreeing with you that slavery was a good thing? Are you listening to yourself?

(which tops Podcast charts in multiple categories, primarily history)

Are you his publicist or something? You’re trying really hard so sell his stuff.

It seems your forgot to answer this:

Is it a good thing that people go on welfare, or is it preferable to starving? Again, this is where we get into the definition of the word. Think about it, how would it be preferable to be mistreated, beaten, and abused?

I think plenty of people would prefer to be poor and free then to be fed and a slave.

But if you think otherwise, would you be in favor of putting all homeless and poor people in involuntary servitude? Since it’s preferable to welfare and starving, according to you.

And then of course there’s all the homophobia in the bible, but that seems to be a positive to people such as you who support sex based discrimination.

Oh cool, christian love!

LMAO! Dan Carlin is far from religious, and the last thing he does is whitewash anything. In fact, the stuff he talks about is blood curdling and may even make you vomit everywhere.

Sure bud, I’ll rephrase. I really don’t care about your totally non-religious podcast, especially one that tries to whitewash indentured servitude.

If you’re referring to those mega churches and people like the Duggars, then ya. I agree with you there and agree that’s wrong.

Them too. But you only need to look at how the christian churches protect pedophiles and abusers, help them escape the law and reoffend again to see how much power and influence they get.

Plus, the catholic church alone is worth billions, with land holdings, historical artifacts, etc.

Becoming a high-ranking member grants you influence over your underlings and delusional people, food and shelter for the rest of your life, etc.

You know well that this is about judicial punishment. If a slave murders someone, for example

Feel free to quote the verse where it says you can only beat slaves as judicial punishment.

No. It’s a reality and a fact that not every single word in the Bible is a commandment. There has to be context and even just basic information about events, people, cultures, etc.

And that context just happens to be in form of direct commandments. Oops.

Is it a good thing that people go on welfare, or is it preferable to starving? Again, this is where we get into the definition of the word. Think about it, how would it be preferable to be mistreated, beaten, and abused?

I think plenty of people would prefer to be poor and free then to be fed and a slave.

But if you think otherwise, would you be in favor of putting all homeless and poor people in involuntary servitude? Since it’s preferable to welfare and starving, according to you.

And then of course there’s all the homophobia in the bible, but that seems to be a positive to people such as you who support sex based discrimination.

You really should listen to Dan Carlin’s podcasts. (Even if it’s not for the sake of this discussion, his content is unmatched)

I really don’t care about your religious podcast, especially one that tries to whitewash slavery.

It’s not like it comes with more pay like a job. It’s basically just more work.

It does come with pay, as well and power and influence.

Because that’s what you’re choosing to hear. You’re ignoring all the other things I’ve said.

I’m hearing reality and ignoring the delusional falsehoods you’re saying, yes.

You’re also ignoring the part where women slaves could be forced to marry their masters, where men could not.

But they were completely equal, right?

Anything with abuse is abuse and is abhorrent. The Bible says as much.

I didn’t say that for the part where it says how you can beat your slave.

It didn’t say that for the part about dashing babies into rocks.

It didn’t say that for child murder.

No, the Bible records it. The Bible also places a huge emphasis on showing love to your neighbour and your enemy.

Oh, I see. When something supports agenda then it’s the bible’s core message, but when something doesn’t look to good for it, then it’s just recorded in it, and also out of context.

How convenient.

If you haven’t noticed, the bible frequently contradicts itself.

No one here ever said slavery of any kind was good. Not in the slightest. You might be confusing your preconceptions for something I said.

Huh, so this wasn’t a quote used by you?

“In fact, there were cases in which, from a slave’s point of view, the stability of servitude under a family in which the slave was well-treated would have been preferable to economic freedom.”

Yes, saying that anyone who doesn’t donate an organ to someone else is a killer is prepostorous, I agree.

This assumes all religious scholars have a nefarious agenda. I don’t doubt some or many do, but no more so than the final population average. There are many who genuinely want to help others and believe in teaching and sharing peace.

Well, this one clearly does, as he’s trying to whitewash slavery to make his religion look better. Seems pretty nefarious to me.

Because you think “slavery” means the same thing across all time

They are ot free to leave, and can be abused by their masters at will. It’s close enough.

No, it’s all are equal but not everyone can have the same job and responsibilities.

Except the high jobs and high responsiblilities are only available to men.

You know your arguments about this sound familiar to those used by pro-segregationits. I would say something about strange bedfellows, but since you’re agruing for thr same thing, I guess it’s not so strange.

Involuntary servitude

Involuntary servitude

Of course, you forget to mention how none of this forgiveness applies to women, who weren’t freed after six years/the debt being paid off, and could instead be forcibly taken as a wife.

And of course slaves taken from neighbouring countries weren’t to be returned or freed, they were slaves for life.

“Slaves” under voluntary servitude were even able to “seek a new master”. Basically find a new job.

Voluntary servitude? Maybe.

Were they able to get a new job under involuntary servitude? No. So slavery.

But indentured servitude with physical abuse is still slavery, and the bible supports it. No way around it.

There’s a saying that when democracy doesn’t favour conservatives, they don’t turn from conservatism, they’ll turn on democracy. As it turns out it also applies to christans: when christians find out the bible supports slavery, they don’t turn of the bible, instead they’ll start saying slavery was actually good. And lo and behold…

And of course the rampant homophobia.

Kinda like how if someone dying of kidney failure asked for my kidneys and I said no, I’m basically telling them to drop dead.

Currently, 17 people die each day on the organ transplant list. I’m representing one of them, and coming directly and specifically to you. Will you donate a kidney?

“Broadly, the Biblical… equally to any other resident alien.”*

What you forgot you mention about the wikipedia page, is that these are not facts, but quotes from a religious scholar.

A religious scholar, who would greatly benefit from people thinking of positively of his religion.

If google puts it on their wikipedia page that them avoiding hundreds of millions in taxes is in context a really good thing, would you believe them?

Slavery pre-American colonial settlement is far more nuanced than people realize.

I don’t even need to respond to it, it just speaks for itself.

Is it though?

Yes. It’s literally “All of you are equal, some are just more equal than others”.

Which is to say neither men or women are above the other, they are equal to God.

Ah, I see. “Seperate but equal”.

True, but an employee at a large company cannot become the CEO (yes, I know it’s “technically” possible, but how often does that happen?).

It is possible, and it does happen.

In fact, every employee can start their own company and become its CEO.

A more apt analogy would be, a company where white people can become managers and C-suite, but black people cannot.

Would you support this?

That being said, slavery in the Bible isn’t what you think it is (as I mentioned earlier in my comment). A slave would only receive such punishment if they did something extremely heinous, like murder someone.

“The condition in which one person is owned as property by another and is under the owner’s control, especially in involuntary servitude.”

Yep, that fits.

I’ll never understand how people like you can sink to such levels, defending slavery.

And again, the rampant homophobia.

Whatever, I really don’t care about thr opinions of some hypocrite killer.

So you haven’t donated any, you’re trying to evade the question.

Anyway, that aside, if you are in a position to save another person or prevent their death, and either don’t or even just expedite what was already going to happen… You’re a killer in my eyes

That means, by your own logic, you’re a killer.

For example, the quote about slaves in Exodus was not a teaching. It’s historical context about law at that time. That verse was intended to prevent brutalities towards slaves

It’s not a teaching, it just explicitly tells people what to do and not to do. Makes sense.

(which at the time were either hired labourers or in indebted servitude who literally sold themselves to pay off a debt, they were freed or “released” when the monetary value of their debt was paid off. It’s not the same as the term for slavery we commonly associate with the it today).

Hired laborers and indentured servants whom you could beat and abuse, and had no freedom of their own. Hmm, I wonder if there’s a word for that…

The wording that if a slave survives for a day or two was used to determine intent, as it was considered that if someone survives for a couple days after being punished then something else was also the cause of death, and not a direct result of the punishment enacted.

Ultimately the point here is that this isn’t a “teaching” in any way. Some things in the Bible are just historical facts and context.

It’s not a teaching, it just explicitly tells people what to do and not to do. Makes sense.

Timothy 2:12 (I know you mean 1 Timothy even though you didn’t specify, because there’s a 1 Timothy and a 2 Timothy)

You’re very clever, congratulations.

also needs context, because that scripture is about spiritual matters. It’s like a chain of command for the purposes of order. This is something that you cannot pull a single scripture out and use only that as an example. There are many other scriptures that expand on this. For example, a man/husband is supposed to treat his wife like his own body and like a “weaker vessel” (implying a delicate and gentle approach), and anyone who does not hates himself and God.

You can give all the context you want, that’s sexism, plain and simple.

It’s like a chain of command for the purposes of order.

A chain of command you cannot change, that is not based on knowledge or experience, but on what’s between your legs.

Corinthians 11:5-6 - (which Corinthians? There’s two of them)

Or not so clever, I guess.

We have this wonderful new technology called google. Feel free to use it.

Or not, since it was created by the devil of science.

how is this torture? It’s just about head coverings, and one that’s often taken out of context. Verse 11 and 12 say *“Besides, in connection with the Lord, neither is woman separate from man nor is man separate from woman. 12 For just as the woman is from the man, so also the man is through the woman; but all things are from God.”

The Bible doesn’t teach dominating and torturing people, for one.

Forcing women to shave their heads sure sounds like dominating to me…

Basically neither man or women are better than the other, both are from God and that’s all that matters.

Men aren’t forced to shave their hair, and using your analogy, they are always higheron the chain of command than women.

Titus 2:9-10 - You could literally replace “slave” with employee and “master” with boss or CEO, and then no one would say boo. As I mentioned earlier, the term slave is not the dehumanizing one we often use. Its modern counterpart is very close to “employee”.

Except CEOs aren’t allowed to beat up employees, and employees are free to leave.

Colossians 3:22-24, Leviticus 25:44-46, Peter 2:18 - same argument, because the term slave in these verses are not what you are attributing to it.

“Employees, be subject to your CEOs with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.”

And all of this not even talking about the rampant homophobia, genocide, etc commanded in the bible

Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain.

The quarantine mission.

I didn’t have it spolied, and I got really attached to my men.

The beginning was bad enough, but when they started saluting…

Also, Red Dead Redemtion 2, the ending. Man, that sunrise was beautiful…

(If you liked the vibe of RDR2, check out these two songs by the incredible Gavin Dunne.)

How many kidneys have you donated?

“When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)”

“However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)”

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.”

Timothy 2:12

“But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is one and the same thing as having a shaved head. For if a woman will not cover her head, she should cut off her hair. But if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, she should cover her head.”

Corinthians 11:5-6

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.”

Colossians 3:22-24

“Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them”

Titus 2:9-10

“Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.”

Peter 2:18

Just asking questions, huh

Cognitove dissonence.