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Cake day: June 13th, 2023
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21·1 year agoIt was under Israeli occupation following the Six-Day War until the PNA was given a kind of on-paper authority over it according to the Oslo Accords (which, along with the EUBAM agreements and such, basically gave Israel full siege power over Gaza on all sides). It’s a whopping 141 square miles, I don’t know what pointing to a population increase is supposed to demonstrate.
The situation before October 7th was that of a clear division between Palestinian population inside the Gaza strip and Israeli population to the north and east. Now:
Israeli minister without portfolio Gideon Sa’ar told Channel 12 News that Gaza “must be smaller at the end of the war” and that “there should be an area that is classified as a security zone where whoever enters is intercepted.” He added: “We must make the end of our campaign clear to everyone around us. Whoever starts a war against Israel must lose territory.”[260][261]
In the context of several past instances where Israel has, in order: (a) claimed a territory citing military purposes (b) settlements were built on the military area © claimed the area as its own land because it has Israeli settlements on it - we have absolutely no reason to expect otherwise, particularly given that figures in the Israeli government and media *have been explicitly calling for this:
She noted that Israeli public officials have openly advocated for another Nakba, the term for the events of 1947-1949 when over 750,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes and lands during the hostilities that led to the establishment of the State of Israel. The Naksa, which led to Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in 1967, displaced 350,000 Palestinians.
Israeli member of Knesset Ariel Kallner on Sunday called for a second ‘Nakba’ to take place in Gaza amid ongoing armed conflict between Hamas and the Israeli army.
“Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join! their Nakba, because like then in 1948, the alternative is clear,” Kallner wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter.
Nobody does. Even someone with the best reputation could be lying, too. People need to stop taking governments on faith like that, it’s absolutely moronic. If they didn’t present evidence that you took the time to evaluate for yourself whether or not it was proof, you just don’t know at all.
I spent most of today trying to get to the bottom of this. I don’t have the answer.
On some level I’m just like, what frigging difference does it even make, it’s all caused by this idiotic conflict. Give the Palestinians some of the land back, arrange a change in power on both sides, release the hostages, get this god damn thing over with already. Fuck Hamas, fuck genocidal Netanyahu, you leave it up to them and these people will be killing each other forever.
Where is the vision to bring this apartheid/conflict/whatever to an end FOREVER?
Appeal to majority fallacy. Though yes that guy is full of it.
Israel ambassador to the UN literally gave the cancer analogy a couple hours ago IIRC. Didn’t say “kill good cells” though.
The U.S. is independent from Israel in about the same way China is independent from North Korea. “Confirmation” isn’t worth a cent, we need proof.
The “precise” number that’s been circulating is 471. People have been taking shelter at hospitals all over the Gaza Strip due to the air bombardment and evacuation order. So a whole lot of people in/around a hospital courtyard here, not that unreasonable. Shoulder to shoulder, that’s about a square of 22 x 22 people, a crowd of people.
US and Israel have basically been in lockstep for decades (despite the whole supposed Obama/Netanyahu row), this isn’t really worth anything.
Sorry for the brief comment before, was on my phone. Was talking about the users on lemmygrad.ml.
What I mean is, I mean, be careful about lumping people under stereotypes. It does seem like a tankie instance but some of their stances seem perfectly reasonable. The frustrating thing about Marxist theory in general is that it provides this general framework for describing systems of imperial and economic oppression, but does such a shitty job understanding the corollaries between that and the functioning of “communist” states. A lot of people get drawn in to that kind of thinking observing U.S. imperialism and such. I wouldn’t generalize too angrily about them, vast majority of people have some kind of half-baked ideology or another and it’s always just degrees of how many mistakes they’re making across a given group.
Every one of them exactly like that huh?
After the debacle with the “beheaded babies”, I’m going through and evaluating every claim that’s been made. The mistake that was made before the Iraq War - the public failing to hold the government’s feet to the fire over claims about weapons, war crimes, etc., to make sure they had a basis in reality - unfolded into somewhere near a million deaths. That kind of failure can’t ever be acceptable.
Genocide unfolding.
I’ve seen this claim about “beheadings of babies” being circulated in the last day in regard to the Hamas/Israel situation. Biden “confirmed” it but then representatives walked back claims that he had even claimed to see proof. So again it’s one of these situations where thousands of lives are being sacrificed behind “proof” that the public cannot see. It may have happened, it may not have, but how on earth are we supposed to know without proof?
The mentality people have that we should just take it on faith is absolutely baffling to me. We have stringent standards for proof in the criminal trial of a single person, but when it comes to waging wars against countries of millions of people, the standards drop down to zero. There is so much danger in just entrusting people in power to dictate to the public what happened and what didn’t and not have any way to verify it. The stakes are beyond reasoning so the standard for proof to justify any actions should be absolute.
Still ended up in the situation where a big chunk of Ireland wanted to stay with the British and became “Northern Ireland”. That still seems so strange to me, although I get how people would be derascinated like that.
But, if nothing else, proves that independence for an oppressed people is a gigantic step in the right direction. Israel’s always reasoning that it would present an “existential threat” and all this, but somehow I think keeping a population in an open air prison isn’t making them more friendly.
/r/worldnews nuking any balanced comments on these threads. That site is so fucked.
The “human shields” reasoning has been circulating for at least a decade. “Look, we had to kill the civilians, the militants were hiding behind them!” I don’t know on what planet that reasoning is supposed to be acceptable.
My source is a comprehensive poll covering a bunch of different topics. Most centrally:
If new parliamentary elections were held today with the participation of all political forces that participated in the 2006 elections, 64% say they would participate in them, and among these participants, Fateh receives 36%, Hamas’ Change and Reform 34%, all other lists combined 9%, and 21% say they have not yet decided whom they will vote for. Three months ago, vote for Hamas stood at 34% and Fatah at 33%. Vote for Hamas in the Gaza Strip stands today at 44% (compared to 44% three months ago) and for Fateh at 32% (compared to 28% three months ago). In the West Bank, vote for Hamas stands at 24% (compared to 25% three months ago) and Fatah at 40% (compared to 34% three months ago).
A little over a quarter (27%) believe that Hamas is the most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people today while 24% believe that Fateh under the leadership of Abbas is more deserving; 44% believe both are unworthy of representation and leadership. Three months ago, 31% said Hamas is the most deserving, 21% said Fateh led by Abbas is the most deserving, and 43% said both are unworthy of representation and leadership.
which isn’t even close to 80% no matter how you look at it.
Your NBC News one says this:
The group’s popularity grew after a two-week conflict with Israel in 2021, with roughly 75% of those polled viewing Hamas as safeguarding the Al-Aqsa Mosque and other Muslim holy sites in East Jerusalem.
which is a very different thing than general approval…
80%
Where are you getting this figure from? I see ~29% from this poll:
conducted in 2023.
More war crimes