Since you’re being shit on in this thread, I just wanted to thank you for being so thorough and objective in your responses here, and for your links to sources. We need more people like you on Lemmy.

Excellent post in general, but it should be noted that the meaning of “wine-dark sea” is still very much disputed.

Sekiro has the best combat of any game I’ve ever played, so I’d be satisfied with just having something like it in other FS games.

…entirely in Sony’s hands.

Not on lemmy.ml there isn’t!

God Emperor is where I always finish my rereads.

Qualcomm really does want to become Intel.

Just bought $50 of merch off their website – this is the sort of journalism we should all be supporting.

Same. As much as I love Domino’s, if we’re going out, we’re definitely going to a proper pizzeria.

Domino’s pan, double cheese, light sauce, extra pepperoni. I’ve tried deep dish in Chicago, New York style in New York, traditional pizzerias in Italy, and countless overpriced “craft” places from all over North America, and nothing I’ve tried even comes close.

“Does anyone else… (have trouble finishing video games/use their toenail clippings to add texture to a pot of chili/etc.)?”

objective relative to the rules or conventions of visual storytelling in an anatomic sense

Ok, do you have a handy list of these objective narrative measures then, along with precise, unambiguous methods of quantifying them in a manner that can objectively determine an action movie’s quality?

that is motivated by the character’s actions on the screen

This is a subjective determination, unless you can somehow quantifiably show otherwise. How can we objectively know when a character’s actions are or aren’t sufficiently “motivated”? And even if the beginning-middle-end can somehow be shown to be objectively motivated by the character’s actions on the screen, how can you prove that a lack of this sort of beginning-middle-end is objectively bad?

the lack of wasted frames on characters

This is a subjective determination, unless you can somehow quantifiably show otherwise. How can “wasted” be objectively defined here? How do we even know that “wasted” frames are objectively bad?

There isn’t unmotivated action.

This is a subjective determination, unless you can somehow quantifiably show otherwise. How can “unmotivated” be objectively defined here? How do we even know that “unmotivated” action is objectively bad?

There is not an unnecessary or missing character on screen.

This is a subjective determination, unless you can somehow quantifiably show otherwise. How can “unnecessary” or “missing” be objectively defined here? Also, how do we even know that “unnecessary” or “missing” characters are objectively bad?

And the framing from edit to edit does not yank your eye somewhere it’s not meant to be.

By your subjective judgment, unless you can somehow show otherwise. Also, how do we even know that the camera yanking your eye somewhere its not meant to be is objectively bad?

Bourne Ultimatum […] has an insane volume of superfluous or narratively unmotivated camera coverage in its action

This is a subjective determination, unless you can somehow quantifiably show otherwise. How can “superfluous” and “narratively unmotivated” be objectively defined here? And even if they could, how can you show that this is objectively bad?

there are definitely objective storytelling mechanics that are binary insofar as they are present or not on a scene to scene, shot to shot basis.

Great! Back to my original question then, since nothing you’ve said here has been relevant to it: what are they, and by what metrics are they precisely defined and quantified? And more importantly, how does that objectively prove that Fury Road is a top 10 action movie?

In short, judging art is always subjective. That is inescapable, and attempts to “objectify” it are doomed to fail, because in the end there’s just no accounting for taste. You can tell me why you like Fury Road, and you can even show me that your opinion lines up with “critics” or professors at your film school, but even that is an appeal to authority, and their opinions have as little to do with true objectivity as yours or mine do.

There are many things that are objectively provable, but Fury Road being a top 10 action movie according to “narrative measures” is not one of them.

I also think Fury Road was mid at best for an action movie in general, not just for the series. All of the people putting it on “best of all time” lists makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

EDIT: Ah yes, “objective narrative measures”. Do you have a handy list of these “objective narrative measures”, along with precise, unambiguous methods of quantifying them?

Upvoted for the appropriate Salt and Sanctuary reference.

This is a great resource! Thanks for your effort!

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An excellent choice.

Probably a-ha’s “Take On Me” if I’m being honest.

Since you’re getting blasted here, I just wanted to hop on the downvote train to let you know that I think you’re exactly right on all counts.

For anyone else who was unfamiliar, the GPI is the “Global Peace Index”, and it has literally nothing to do with this conversation - it’s just the first metric TechNerdWizard42 could pull out of their ass where the US is ranked low.