Lemmy’s design is focused on quality content by ditching the Karma farmers and addicts. No more chasing upvotes—people here actually focus on real value instead of feeding the ego.
We have plenty of astroturfing bots & powermods here. Once karma becomes a worthwhile metric for some to filter by, it’ll be abused & manipulated here, too.
For all the problems with karma it did allow for effective filtering. With most accounts on Lemmy being harder to create with captcha and approval it might not be needed
The lack of karma is definitely a plus. Zionist trolls can downvote all they want, no one cares. In fact, there isn’t much of an incentive for any to invest in “downvote farms”.
idk about you but psychologically i never chceckef my ksrma scote but still pay some attention to how an individual comment/submission is perceived. cuz i took the time to write it and it’s cool if people like/understand it and it’s “important” if they dont (at least important to my rat brains)
as a departure from this mentality, i will not edit the typos
I liked my karma back on my old reddit account (before being banned from supporting Luigi), but that is because I had the account for 12 years and invested tok much time into it.
So far I’m enjoying the laid back nature of lemmy. Hopefully there will be more engagement, maybe some UI updates too. But overall I’m liking the switch. The conversations and posts feel more real.
“Karma” is just a counter of a user’s recieved votes. It still exists on lemmy, most clients just choose to not display it.
Also where is this “value content” supposed to be?
Our value comes from our superior bean-based posting economy.
Oh my sweet summer child. EVERY new service and SocMed site starts out like this. Fresh, fun, and working properly. Until the masses show up. That’s when it goes to shit.
Eternal december.
I feel like white-list federation can fix it.
Yep, it’s just a matter of time till karma system is getting implemented on here too
It already exists, it’s just not shown.
Why make this assumption? Is there a reason you believe we need that karma system? I genuinely can’t think of any reason, outside of corporate interest to push engagement.
Yep, any sort of karma system is needed to get the masses to join somewhere. To attract the majority of people you need something that keep them interested. Karma on reddit is the same as likes on Facebook or Instagram
Horrible take. I absolutely do not give a fuck about arbitrary internet points and would like to see an open discussion without a majority bias downvoting someone into oblivion just because they disagree. For example, your comment will not be hidden just because your comment is being downvoted.
The only thing bringing profile karma to Lemmy will do is attract botters to inflate their credibility. Those could also be used to downvote others so the botter’s comments and posts are pushed to the top.
Again, horrible idea.
Isn’t Karma essentially just the delta between upvotes and downvotes you get with some sort of weighting thrown in?
Because you can very much get that delta on here, it just isn’t visible in the default Lemmy interface. If you look at your account through an Mbin frontend for example you can see the “Reputation points” value in the sidebar: https://fedia.io/u/@wittycomputer@feddit.org
Lemmy still relies on upvotes for ranking the feed, so, farming them makes sense, it’s just isolated per each post.
And I believe the issue might get worse as Lemmy grows. The reason Reddit came up with karma and all that is because the more people you have on your platform, the more baddies you have to account for.
For now, Lemmy is small enough for a basic interpersonal reputation to mostly just work, but as it grows, we need something else. Presumably, not karma.
Piefed implements an “attitude” system which tracks up vote ratio and a few other simple metrics mods can use to identify bad actors
Nice! The more I hear about Piefed, the more I am inclined to check it out
Can you explain what you mean with farming upvotes makes sense? There is no part of the algorithm that takes into account how many upvotes the OP recently got, or is there?
I think they meant on a post-by-post basis. You can’t farm account karma, but you can farm upvotes on individual posts, for ego, I guess…
There is the vibe-check on Lemmy, though. I don’t believe the algorithm takes that into account.
There is no algorithm at all as far as I know, for better or worse. The closest is the “Scaled” sorting option, which takes community size into account to help boost smaller communities. But I’d hardly call that an algorithm, even though it technically is.
There is no point in farming upvotes here apart from feeding your brain’s dopamine response.
Perhaps a creddit system (for gits and shiggles)
There’s multiple sorting types that you can choose for your feed. How do you want your content ordered?
That’s right! I said good shit in tech posts that was worth upvoting so others can see. Then there was an bad comment I wrote in patientgaming that deserved the downvotes and not worth reading.
Lemmy is small enough, that without even seeing a karma total, some users have an unofficial “rapport”, where I’ve seen them around enough to recognize whether they are the type to go against the grain, a perpetual troll, or a usually reasonable person with an unusually spicy take.
Yeah it’s got that old forum type feel still.
Just value content
Lemming36: Here is a high quality 46 MB photo of a shiny bat poop straight to .world HDD
did you mean: beans ?
Just don’t be a woman on Lemmy.
Sure, most people won’t downvote or harass you just for being a woman (a lot will… we didn’t get the best of Reddit at all, and I doubt the new adoptees are any better…) but they will often enough make things difficult even if they aren’t actively causing problems.
But men of Lemmy (aka the vast majority of the user base since they ran off all the womenfolk) don’t care. They see that as quality control or some dumb shit, because THEY aren’t interested in woman things, so nobody should be, or they think their “as a man” comments should be important or some shit… Whatever the post is about. If it doesn’t cater to them, it can fuck right off.
Which is why cis women make up <10% of the Lemmy side of the fediverse. It’s a disaster for women here.
But I wonder how long you’ve been here. Most of the posts of this nature are from very new accounts and they don’t know the problems yet…
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I (as a cis guy) haven’t seen anything againt women. Do you have any examples?
I’ve not had a problem here, do you have examples of this? Not saying it does not exist, more curious as I’ve found this space a lot kinder than reddit.
Is this really the case? I find this unexpected. Lemmy seems to be friendly to the LGBTQ people, namely trans.
If what you say is true, we should probably address it somehow.
The downvotes prove your point. This topic needs more discussion, but most of the times when women bring this up, their comments get downvoted to hell. It’s quite a “gotcha” for someone to ask to see “examples” when most of the examples we’ve come across or created will be buried or have since been deleted.
Alternative question - for those that don’t believe this is an issue, when is the last time you came across a post on Lemmy that is specifically for/about women or women’s issues (especially one posted from a woman’s perspective)? Or even better, go ahead and make such a post. Watch how fast the downvotes come.
I expect this comment to be downvoted the same way as the parent comment was, the same way that past posts I’ve made and read about women’s issues have been downvoted on Lemmy. If men want this place to be inclusive for women, they have to do their part to support us - not downvoting our concerns, simply because they don’t experience the same issues, is the absolute bare minimum. Otherwise, why would we keep posting/commenting about our issues when doing so invites a downvote cascade?
I just got downvoted for asking for an example of this. I have been using Lemmy quite a bit in the last month (way more than I should) and I have never come across what you’re talking about. I might be wrong, I haven’t seen all the posts created on Lemmy, that is why I’m asking for an example.
If I make the claim that 4chan is full of racist, nazi fucks, that is easy to verify and provide examples of in a few minutes. Similarly, the burden of proof should be on the one making the claim.
Alternative question - for those that don’t believe this is an issue, when is the last time you came across a post on Lemmy that is specifically for/about women or women’s issues (especially one posted from a woman’s perspective)? Or even better, go ahead and make such a post. Watch how fast the downvotes come.
I’m not going to say it isn’t a problem, but this was just the other day and while engagement could have been better it didn’t seem to be met with downvotes and pushback.
Any examples of this? It sounds terrible and should be addressed.
Really? I have like 15 meme communities blocked, and there are comparably very few niche communities.
Yeah, lemmy suffers a lot of from this. Too many posts that try to just make the front page, too many popular communities that dominate c/all. I’ve even had a friend quit over this.
I genuinely miss communities about games, linguistics and niche hobbies - they just aren’t as popular as news/politics/general memes and that. I do try to post them as much as i can, but since they’re niche there’s only so much content you can find.
I’d love for the frontpage to have some [optional, ofc] changes that encourage more of this type of content.
Yeah, but in this day and age we’re going to grow with easy-to-consume content e.g. memes. Once growth hits a critical mass then the niche communities will come.
Pretty much any game or random hobby I’m on at the moment, I could count on finding a decently populated and active Subreddit. This is what’s missing from Lemmy.
For games, make sure you are subscribed to:
All are healthy and active, and I’m sure there are more. I suggest cross-posting stuff from a niche community you contribute to, to one of these, to bring traction to the smaller community.
maybe my definitions of healthy and active are extremely biased, but these communities have several days-old posts with low numbers of comments and limited reply threads. not only that, but there’s lots of news articles about the industry but not much stuff about GAMES, be that random reviews, discussions, or memes.
what do you want to discuss post it, no one has a montery incentive to make this site work for you, if you want it to do you gotta do it yourself, commentings a good step, now make a post about what you want to discuss so theres a more recent post on that community about it
Well it’s partly my bias too, because when I joined Lemmy about 3 years ago, lemmy.world didn’t exist yet and there were around a couple dozen new posts on All of Lemmy per day at the time.
I’m just really grateful for how much we’ve grown as a site, even if we’re still hardly anywhere close to the scale of modern corporate social media. But imo it doesn’t have to be, I like this.
Last one seems not to exist.
Lemmy.world is not federating with beehaw.org
Beehaw is quite toxic and for that reason, lemmy.world is not federated. I expect an angry swarm of people from Beehaw to send me death threats now to prove how untoxic they are.
Why would anyone be on all? Even with reddit I I quit going to all probably 10 years ago…
And don’t let my Lemmy age fool you, I drop my account every 6 to 8 months. It took my a lot longer to figure that out on reddit.
Ok…then what do you recommend for a varied random feed of news and posts from various communities?
For me it’s to find new content (i block most news/politics communities since they’re most of c/all) but there’s a lot of attention and eyes to be gained from all.
But most of this, as i said; is buried by the generic popular content.
Well yeah, that’s what ALL is right? The most generic stuff. You can browse communities and subscribe as needed.
If you are going to use all It might help to enable scaled sorting.
It boosts small communities in the sort.
I’ll try, thank you 🙂
urwelcom
With time we’ll get there! The more we slowly contribute to the niche topics, the more we’ll see these communities grow. I’m sure there are a sizable amount of people from Reddit looking for their niches on here to start growing more for them to fully hop over. I’ve got a good chunk of mine on Lemmy now, but still a handful of ones I haven’t found a comparable server for yet. If I understood running a server more I probably would have started a couple of my own for these topics.
Is there anywhere on Lemmy people can request for servers to get started? I think that would be helpful to have since missing topics are some of the barriers of entry for some people.
Blocked? Why? If you don’t want to see them why are you subscribed to them?
I mean if you want niche communities you create them and subscribe to them right?
Browsing the global/all feed is one way to find new communities, and some people just like using it in general rather than defaulting to a subs-only view.
Seems like a not so good way to me, and thats why people are complaining.
You can just look through the communities and sub to good ones.
Maybe it would be helpful to use ALL with scaled sorting. It boosts smaller communities.
I gave up using all on reddit a very long time ago, and Lemmy is basically the same… But at least on Lemmy you have scaled sorting to try and help.
Or just…browse all and then block communities you don’t want to see. Most stuff I block is furry shit. Nothing against it, I just don’t want to see it.
For what it’s worth I generally agree with you, and especially think the people who treat /all as their own personal feed are nuts, but nonetheless it’s something that some people do 🫠
Everyone has their own preferences about how to use things!
I usually doomscroll all. on reddit, i used to sub to subs, but on lemmy, because it’s quite small, I just use all.
I just see them in the Everything feed, and if I don’t block them, they seem to dominate. I’m not actually against them, but I don’t want my feed to be all memes.
Visible post and comment scores are still going to produce some of this behavior. You may not have a total karma but people will still get dopamine from seeing their posts getting upvotes and be reinforced in doing the same again. So the same mechanisms of social pressure and uniformisation are at play. The worst being when people delete their minority opinion comments because of the downvote pressure.
You can turn vote counts off if you want to.
Yeah but I won’t because I like dopamine.
Down votes mean I am reaching the correct audience for that specific content
Maybe. They might also mean you’re an idiot.
Slashdot used to have a multidimensional voting system that would allow you to up or down vote something based on whether it was funny/insightful/correct, etc (can’t remember the dimension). I wish we had something like that. Sometimes it would be useful to mark a comment as “funny, but also wrong”
I had a discussion about using the Slashdot style voting rather than the Reddit style.
It not only has the additional tag, it has the max “upvote” display limit of 5, and the display code will expand and promote the best rated comments, while hiding the garbage.
I think comments on most forums would benefit from there being no ‘big upvote’ number to chase, as well as making the highest rated comments in a thread of say, 200, more obvious.
No, it was only up or down, but you could also choose to add a descriptor, funny, insightful, informative, flamebait, troll, and a few others: https://slashdot.org/faq#meta3
Right, thanks. Still a super useful system, IMO, though I’m sure better versions are possible.
I turn my phone sideways and then my upvote is in a different dimension.
Maybe. They might also mean you’re an idiot.
If I am wrong sombody will generally probide a rebuttal tho but deff happens
Genuinely curious, does that mean that, for you, getting downvoted gives you dopamine/a sense of accomplishment?
Your above comment is in the negative when I’m making this comment. Does that feel good? Again, genuinely curious, hard to put a non-judgemental tone in writing.
I can’t relate to that feeling, upvotes and downvotes to me show how much a community agrees or disagrees with what I’ve said. Either what I said isn’t right for the community I posted it in or maybe just a generally unpopular opinion if I’m getting downvotes. Might make me reflect but usually no big deal, I’m mostly here for the discussions, memes and current events. Outside of trolling I don’t really see how getting downvoted might be seen as a good thing by a poster.
If people down vote but are unable to provide a coherent rebuttal, that means that they are rage down voting.
Not necessarily, I usually downvote comments where there are enough rebuttal replies but I still disagree heavily with what’s being said. I am able to provide the Nth coherent rebuttal but I’m just either lazy or I don’t want to contribute to the spam.
I guess getting people to rage can feel validating, knowing that I’ve made someone rage quit a game feels satisfying for sure.
I don’t personally feel that way about sites like Lemmy/Reddit/Social-media in general where things are more discussion and social-interaction based though. I guess for my kind of discourse goals, if I’ve made someone angry rather than laugh or understand my perspective, I’ve done a bad job.
Yes this
Reddit become more unusable because of the ads, bots, redditors who promote their onlyfans / business.
