As The Intercept pointed out this week, this is Israel’s 9/11 in that it is a horrific event they didn’t see coming, but when you stop to look at the powder keg they created, they absolutely should have.
Well, it really did work in the US. This is literally what happened at Pearl Harbor.
Roosevelt knew the attack was coming, very much so, our intelligence was good. But he needed the attack to happen, so he let it happen.
At the time, Europe was at war and our allies desperately needed help, but the US had been dragging it’s heels about getting involved for years. Roosevelt wanted to enter the war and support our allies, but congress just didn’t want to make the official declaration of war. But after the attack on Pearl harbor, that declaration came in short order, just as Roosevelt knew it would.
This is untrue. This is a false conspiracy theory that people keep repeating that has no facts to back it up. This one bugs me because my grandfather was in the merchant Marines and was stationed there when this happened. People parroting that untrue fact drove him bonkers.
Did the people stationed there get warned? Did merchant Marines have access to top brass intelligence reports? Did Roosevelt have a different motivation? Did Pearl Harbor not happen…?
What was the prior situation with the reservists? Did they backtrack on their no show threats before the war broke or was the war what forced them to show up
It’s not that easy. There is constant information coming in all the time and intelligent agents need to parse signal from noise. It’s not every single bit of intelligence regarding an attack comes into fruition. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. This is an extremely difficult signal detection problem, one with lives at stake.
80 years ago is the 1940’s. But the report was ignored due to lack of training. The way I heard, it was due to radar being relatively new, untested, and thus untrusted.
I believe that radar should be read as radar system. That is to say it was a new radar system that had not been fully learned yet not that radar as a concept was new.
Good. And I hope you don’t eat any food that contains ingredients that come from fields, or else you’re buying into big plow whether you like it or not.
They didn’t corroborate that Israel let this happen as justification to level Gaza. That’s the conspiracy theory the user above is urging not to spread.
War crimes are being committed on both sides, but one side is in a far better political, economic, and defensive position. Treaties and councils have been written, but if the stronger party decides they want to break those agreements, and suffers no repercussions from doing so (so far as having essentially full support from the US government at one point), what can the smaller group do? Roll over and let their people be extinguished by a callous and racist government?
I do not condone attacks from either side, but saying that Palestine is “suffering the consequences”, while ignoring the actions that led to this attack (which could be seen as Israel suffering their own consequences) is short sighted and cruel.
I don’t argue there is a complicated history. I don’t deny there are folks in the Israeli government that have small minded opinions. But to say there is no Arab representation in the Israeli government is false. To suggest that bigot views of one minister represents the position of the nation, or dictates it is misunderstanding the parliamentary government in Israel.
What I’m saying is that the Palestinians in Gaza have had an amazing opportunity to choose their own destiny. Israel pulled out without preconditions. Left the agricultural industry in place. There wasn’t a blockade until the people of Gaza chose Hamas, and Hamas chose to follow its charter of hate rather than build up its own population. The only reason the people of Gaza are in the locked down situation they’ve been in is simply because Hamas choose aggression and Israel needs to secure its people. Now Israel failed this past week and Hamas got an opportunity to execute its mission. And it has to the horror of even you, I’m sure.
This is the bed the people of Gaza made. Now they need to sleep in it. Sorry. That sucks. But you need to be held accountable for your decisions.
Just look at is the body count. Israel kills or maims 10 or more Palestinians for every one Israeli casualty. That sounds less like defense and more like overwhelming offense.
You are speaking of Palestinians as a monolith. If you apply the same logic to Israelis, Palestinians are perfectly justified in attacking them. Hamas and Likud are both terrorist organizations. Targeting civilians is a war crime no matter who does it or why they say it’s justified.
As for targeting civilians, Hamas for over 15 years has been indiscriminately firing rockets on civilian towns. Been there. Seen it first hand. Have you?
Israel has attacked Gaza, no doubt. But it warns in advance. Calls every resident. “Knocks” on the roof prior. Gives time for the civilians to leave. You know what Hamas does - tells them to stay. Makes them human shields.
It’s a choice the Palestinians in Gaza make. They should chose differently.
So you think it’s also ok to hold Israel as whole responsible for the actions of monsters like Ariel Sharon and Benjamin Netanyahu? Should we hold all Russians responsible for Putin, and blame all Americans for the Iraq war?
As The Intercept pointed out this week, this is Israel’s 9/11 in that it is a horrific event they didn’t see coming, but when you stop to look at the powder keg they created, they absolutely should have.
And just like 9/11, they were warned of the attack weeks in advance but were still woefully unprepared to protect their citizens.
I’m worried that they DID know, and are using this as an excuse to further their agenda against Palestinians.
With the Netanyahu government, that’s the more plausible explanation.
Well, it worked in the US /s
Well, it really did work in the US. This is literally what happened at Pearl Harbor.
Roosevelt knew the attack was coming, very much so, our intelligence was good. But he needed the attack to happen, so he let it happen.
At the time, Europe was at war and our allies desperately needed help, but the US had been dragging it’s heels about getting involved for years. Roosevelt wanted to enter the war and support our allies, but congress just didn’t want to make the official declaration of war. But after the attack on Pearl harbor, that declaration came in short order, just as Roosevelt knew it would.
This is untrue. This is a false conspiracy theory that people keep repeating that has no facts to back it up. This one bugs me because my grandfather was in the merchant Marines and was stationed there when this happened. People parroting that untrue fact drove him bonkers.
Which part?
Did the people stationed there get warned? Did merchant Marines have access to top brass intelligence reports? Did Roosevelt have a different motivation? Did Pearl Harbor not happen…?
The whole “Rosevelt knew claim”. It is one of those false clames that gets repeated so often.
That’s sadly a possibility.
What was the prior situation with the reservists? Did they backtrack on their no show threats before the war broke or was the war what forced them to show up
It’s not that easy. There is constant information coming in all the time and intelligent agents need to parse signal from noise. It’s not every single bit of intelligence regarding an attack comes into fruition. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. This is an extremely difficult signal detection problem, one with lives at stake.
Also they did have radar signatures of the attack incoming but radar tech was new and they didn’t trust it.
Please tell me you’re being facetious, because radar has been in use for more than 80 years.
80 years ago is the 1940’s. But the report was ignored due to lack of training. The way I heard, it was due to radar being relatively new, untested, and thus untrusted.
I’m confused. When did this conversation divert to Pearl Harbor?
I think they responded to the wrong person. There’s a pearl harbor tangent happening above this.
I believe that radar should be read as radar system. That is to say it was a new radar system that had not been fully learned yet not that radar as a concept was new.
That would make the radar tech very old and likely you could not trust their work either.
Well by that logic, we should be really suspicious of tech like the wheel or the plow.
Which is why I have never used a plow before and never plan to.
Good. And I hope you don’t eat any food that contains ingredients that come from fields, or else you’re buying into big plow whether you like it or not.
Big brain time
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What are you talking about?
And just like 9/11, their response is sowing death to countless civilians.
Wait until you expand it by a few more years:
The bigger problem is that they probably knew. They where informed by Egypt intelligence…
If that is true, then they might have let it happen as an excuse to take Gaza in retribution
Let’s not spread conspiracy theories without good sources
US Congressional members with security clearances corroborated this, did they not?
They didn’t corroborate that Israel let this happen as justification to level Gaza. That’s the conspiracy theory the user above is urging not to spread.
Fair point. Though to me it’s of little relevance; for either they were grossly incompetent or they let it happen intentionally.
Given the historical evidence behind the Shock Doctrine, I’m convinced that is what’s playing out here.
So, Israel’s 9/11 then? It wasn’t a coincidence that NORAD was on training exercises that day.
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By not forcing Palestinians out of their homes to house Americans: https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/5/4/if-i-dont-steal-your-home-someone-else-will-jewish-settler-says
By not voting in a government that openly supports the eradication of a people that they claim are not a culture: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/no-such-thing-as-palestinian-people-top-israeli-minister-says
By not commuting further war crimes by doling our collective punishment on civilians: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/israel-opt-israel-must-lift-illegal-and-inhumane-blockade-on-gaza-as-power-plant-runs-out-of-fuel/
This video was posted in May 2021, and is still relevant: https://youtu.be/INCXqWzH5vk?si=xxvSkiBcRtkZwZVa
War crimes are being committed on both sides, but one side is in a far better political, economic, and defensive position. Treaties and councils have been written, but if the stronger party decides they want to break those agreements, and suffers no repercussions from doing so (so far as having essentially full support from the US government at one point), what can the smaller group do? Roll over and let their people be extinguished by a callous and racist government?
I do not condone attacks from either side, but saying that Palestine is “suffering the consequences”, while ignoring the actions that led to this attack (which could be seen as Israel suffering their own consequences) is short sighted and cruel.
I don’t argue there is a complicated history. I don’t deny there are folks in the Israeli government that have small minded opinions. But to say there is no Arab representation in the Israeli government is false. To suggest that bigot views of one minister represents the position of the nation, or dictates it is misunderstanding the parliamentary government in Israel.
What I’m saying is that the Palestinians in Gaza have had an amazing opportunity to choose their own destiny. Israel pulled out without preconditions. Left the agricultural industry in place. There wasn’t a blockade until the people of Gaza chose Hamas, and Hamas chose to follow its charter of hate rather than build up its own population. The only reason the people of Gaza are in the locked down situation they’ve been in is simply because Hamas choose aggression and Israel needs to secure its people. Now Israel failed this past week and Hamas got an opportunity to execute its mission. And it has to the horror of even you, I’m sure.
This is the bed the people of Gaza made. Now they need to sleep in it. Sorry. That sucks. But you need to be held accountable for your decisions.
Just look at is the body count. Israel kills or maims 10 or more Palestinians for every one Israeli casualty. That sounds less like defense and more like overwhelming offense.
I’m sure they put it up to a democratic vote and only went through with it after getting the unanimous agreement of every single Palestinian in Gaza.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-is-hamas-what-to-know-about-its-origins-leaders-and-funding
Educate yourself. The answer is in the article. Spoiler: Yes, the Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas as their leadership.
Did you even read my comment?
You are speaking of Palestinians as a monolith. If you apply the same logic to Israelis, Palestinians are perfectly justified in attacking them. Hamas and Likud are both terrorist organizations. Targeting civilians is a war crime no matter who does it or why they say it’s justified.
What’s you’re saying doesn’t even make sense.
Communities elect leaders. Gaza elected Hamas.
As for targeting civilians, Hamas for over 15 years has been indiscriminately firing rockets on civilian towns. Been there. Seen it first hand. Have you?
Israel has attacked Gaza, no doubt. But it warns in advance. Calls every resident. “Knocks” on the roof prior. Gives time for the civilians to leave. You know what Hamas does - tells them to stay. Makes them human shields.
It’s a choice the Palestinians in Gaza make. They should chose differently.
So you think it’s also ok to hold Israel as whole responsible for the actions of monsters like Ariel Sharon and Benjamin Netanyahu? Should we hold all Russians responsible for Putin, and blame all Americans for the Iraq war?
Is this your default reaction to seeing something you disagree with?
No. It’s my hope that real people are smarter than this.
Amen, we can all agree on that point.
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