Not wanting to tax the rich because “I might be rich one day”.
This also screams “I am a selfish and self-centered person”.
Yes, and it took awhile for us to recognize that in our friends and family.
Believing that capitalism lifts people out of poverty.
oh but it does
why would you expose yourself like that
“Let’s go Brandon!” Bumper stickers.
Oof, yes. I feel second hand embarrassment whenever I see someone sporting one of those. Maybe it worked at the time, but now it’s just overplayed.
Same with “Fuck Trudeau” stickers and flags in Canada… ALWAYS on an oversized pavement princess truck, driven by a “but think of the children!” idiot who can’t figure out the irony.
Nationalism
I’ll take “poorly educated” over “educated and unwilling to learn or grow.”
That’s the same thing to me. Parents and teachers failed to educate them in how to be curious.
People who are proud about their lack of knowledge on a topic as if that somehow means that they were not programmed prior to the encounter.
Wearing camo and American flag shit in public. Honestly just having American flags on anything now pretty much is the same as that read hat
It’s pretty shitty how those loud people have ruined something that used to be awesome.
Was nationalism ever awesome? From an outside perspective it was quite disturbing and worrying.
There’s nothing wrong with loving your country when it is doing the right things. Displaying pride in your country isn’t necessarily nationalistic.
america was never awesome, I’m sorry to break it to you
Being poor and idolizing the rich.
That’s by design
Listening to loud music without giving a shit about the neighbours.
Being intolerant of those who don’t think like you do.
“Whataboutism”, or if you are unfamiliar with the term:
“The act or practice of responding to an accusation of wrongdoing by claiming that an offense committed by another is similar or worse”
People that use this mechanism are “poorly educated” and unable to hold a conversation and they should just be mocked by whatabouting even harder, so they can maybe understand that they’re dumb and that’s not how you should debate.
Example of the last argument I had recently with my dumb c*nt father:
- Me: You shouldn’t idolize that politician, he evaded literally billions in taxes and that befalls on citizens like you
- Dumb c*nt father: Yeah? And what about that other politician?
- Me: What about the disappearing middle class?!
- D.C.F.: What…?
- Me: WHAT ABOUT THE BEES!?!
AKA changing the topic to avoid learning anything.
Honestly, in your example, you sound like, as you put it, a dumb cunt. The purpose of “whataboutism” is to point out hypocrisy in your debate opponent’s position. Your dad pointed out that a politician on your side did something equally deplorable to the one you’d called out on his side. Rather than respond to that and have a reasonable conversation about the nuance and differences between your chosen politicians, perhaps coming to better understand each other, you chose to devolve to nonsense, intentionally killing the conversation.
That screams poorly educated (but possibly with an expensive education that makes you feel superior enough that you don’t bother to question yourself and your ideals).
The purpose of “whataboutism” is to point out hypocrisy in your debate opponent’s position.
No, it is not. It would be if the argument was, for example, “which candidate is better” or “who should I vote for”. But that wouldn’t be “whataboutism” either, it would be just “point out hypocrisy”.
If we are talking about just that single person (not even in a political way) and you bring up someone else just to deviate the attention, that is whataboutism and it’s poison for the mind.Rather than respond to that and have a reasonable conversation…
People that use this mechanism don’t whant to have a “reasonable conversation”, they just want to be right at all cost, even by sabotaging the debate. If you want to engage with them feel free to waste your time. I value mine more than that.
Plus keeping the argument going will make relationships worse: I voluntarely crash arguments like that with my father because yes, I do think that he’s a dumb cunt, but at the end of the day I still want to say him “I love you nonetheless”.Sounds like this is more of a debate about semantics. “Whataboutism” is a recently-popularized term that doesn’t have a concrete definition yet. You see it as a tool to escape a debate by diverting attention, but I see it as a tool to highlight hypocrisy while continuing a debate. Really, I guess what matters is context - specifically, whether one is attempting to debate “in good faith” (another recently-popularized, inconsistently-defined term).
I certainly don’t know you or your personal relationship with your dad. He doesn’t sound like a great debate opponent, but to be fair, neither do you. Most people aren’t nowadays, sad to say. Somewhere between Trump and Biden, people forgot how to wait their turn and debate the idea, rather than the person. It takes two to tango, they say, and it’s becoming increasingly difficult to find two individuals who are able to set aside their egos and listen in earnest to opposing beliefs.
I guess I’m a bit biased. 2020 turned me into a misanthrope. 🤷
“Whataboutism” is a recently-popularized term that doesn’t have a concrete definition yet
It’s neither recent nor interpretable XD. It was coniated by a journalist in the '70s with the specific meaning I’m telling you. The origin is actually interesting.
I’ll give you that it is more frequent nowadays, since it is an escamotage that populist groups use a lot and they are rising all around the world.He doesn’t sound like a great debate opponent, but to be fair, neither do you
If you are both ignorant and arrogant I’m the worst debate opponent on the fucking planet and I will just troll you into the ground. Expecially with people from my father’s generation, with their “I’m always right” attitude. It doesn’t matter how well informed/educated you might be, they are never receptive and never will. So if I’m forced to argue with them, I make sure I’m the one having fun.
In any other context (luckily the majority) I’m pretty chill and I’ve actually been told by many people to be a really good talker/debater.So if I’m forced to argue with them, I make sure I’m the one having fun.
I can respect that. If they’ve proven themselves to be ignorrogant, there’s no reason to get all flusterfucked trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I’ve dealt with enough people who use trolling as their primary debate strategy that I guess I got shit-triggered. Apologies, friend, for assuming the worst.
Well. No.
Whataboutism as an argument is about chasing the lowest possible ethical standard. You’ll always find someone worse. That doesn’t mean it’s ok.
Even worse, they’re always exaggerated comparisons, such as “zomg, hunter Biden was using drugs”. Well, did you vote for hunter? And almost consistently, the sources being used aren’t reliable sources. And once those claims are fully rebuked, they move on to the latest nonsense (there are a lot of scared whistleblowers out there who the allegedly mentally weak “sleepy Joe” Biden is apparently threatening lol).
And this seems to be mostly a Right wing attitude
this seems to be mostly a Right wing attitude
Let’s not make this political. Right wing and left wing are still part of the same bird. They used to move in harmony, balancing each other, but for the past few years, those wings have been either attacking or ignoring each other. The eagle is in free-fall, and it’s mindsets like this that keep it from course-correcting.
But what about the children? Won’t somebody please think of the children?!
Those who always put loud music or talk as if they were alone in the bus/public places. Always the same people
Might not be a popular take but having an undefendable position like creationism does not necessarily mean “poorly educated.” There are apologists who have learned proper reasoning skills and use their education to bend reality as much towards their will. I think most people would consider Jesuits and the like to be very educated but also very wrong.
As far as signs that someone is poorly educated, there are people who make up “big words” to give the impression of having a better education to other poorly educated people. Which backfires when someone with an actual large vocabulary walks into the room.
Any reference to “common sense”, which really means “what I believe”. Violating it is used as a universal rebuttal for any intellectually sophisticated argument.
Which sucks because it’s diluting the meaning of the phrase, and there are still many situations where it does/should apply.
Being proud of not knowing things, and having no desire to change that.
Sometimes my friends laugh at me for how little I know about pop culture. I laugh back though. I wouldn’t say I’m proud of it but it’s just funny.
Being proudly ignorant of everything is bad. I will respect people who know they don’t know things though, you can’t know everything about everything. It’s why people generally specialize in a field in an industry.
