Even if you think racism is OK if it happens to be against a group you hate, it’s still not justifiable to ban someone for bringing it to the the attention of the administrators.
That would achieve nothing except make people afraid to alert the mods.
Strawman. Comment in question was not racism. I am calling people thin skinned who get offended by a stupid comment and also, people who try to dilute the severity of ACTUAL racism by shouting murder at every inappropriate comment they don’t like, are probably racist as f*ck themselves.
Heck, “privlaged black folk” doesnt sit well with me either.
Lets not mince words here, reguardless of skin color, privlage to not just visit but live in unreality is really sad. And like you’ve won when you see it shattered.
A black slave master is a tragity. “You came from our position, you know first hand our plights and were taken in by their games anyway.” A normal person says .
Is he a “black betrayor” or a “betrayor of his own community”?
It feels verry wrong to say these things on racial lines about large groups rather than communal ones.
Same question, diffrent perspective. is he a “white ally” or a “born-again privlaged manager”?
Imagine that I have that kind of imagination even without your wise input, and that I do not change my opinion on " " being racist or not based on whatever you insert for the perceived skin color.
Just the idea that you have that I would make a difference based on what someone inserts there makes it seem like in your mind it does matter who’s being addressed. Because in my world it doesn’t matter.
Also, complaining about some “privileged” is not racism in and of itself, and with the addition of “committing atrocities”, the commenter on reddit outed themselves as a dumbfuck of a troll. And the previous poster clearly took the bait.
If it doesn’t involve oppression of a minority race by an in-power race, it’s not racism. Might be prejudism, not racism though. Racism involves a power imbalance that treats as inferior a minority.
No. It is not systemic or institutionalized racism. That does not mean it’s not racism. If you hate all white people for no reason you’re just as racist as someone who hates all black people for no reason. I wish we would stop conflating the two and pretending they are the same. Either you strive for equity and equality (meaning no one is out here saying any race is doing X Because they’re that race) the world would be a better place, or you create an argument where there shouldn’t be one to validate your own racism and or bias.
You’re talking about the Marxist definition of racism, aka systemic racism. OP is talking about the common definition of racism, as in to judge based on race.
Its annoying the word “systematic” was chopped off because its basically a trueism if you left it.
If it doesn’t not involve oppression of a minority race by an in-power race, it’s not (systematic) racism. Might be prejudism, not (systematic) racism though. (systematic) Racism involves a power imbalance that treats as inferior a minority.
Right, but then you wouldn’t be able to dismiss OPs concerns. OP wasn’t talking about systemic racism, they were talking about the common understanding of racism.
So when it done in average African country with total population 5% of white(definetly a majority, swear on math meth textbook) is ok. Basically racism by non-white people is not a racism and there is nothing racist in this statement.
I’m not sure if I should mark such absurdity as mere sarcasm.
Its about power, completely devoid of racial lines. It matters If you are given the privlage and act apon convincing yourself of lies. It also matters if you chase power at all costs.
Yes, and racism is also a social hierarchy and systemic structure that utilizes tools of oppression to allow the in-group to have power and control over the out-group. Calling it prejudice alone is not acknowledging the full picture.
Yeah, this thread has been fascinating. It’s the most basic concept and people are wild’n out. My last comment at the bottom of this thing I think will summarize it well for anyone who reads through it all. I think the biggest concern is why people are so resistant to understanding the additional power/control and systemic shit within racism. I use “gravity” as an example, but when it comes to racism, these are people’s lives. And I’d hate to think how invalidating it would make someone feel to hear this “no” and “check the dictionary” shit in a conversation outside of the Internet.
Lol mate, you’re being willfully obtuse. As you already know, there is knowledge beyond the confines of the dictionary, and the dictionary is merely attempting to summarize a very complex subject. If you’d like to broaden your perspective, you can turn to the research which is where I’m pulling my definition. If you’d like to understand why it’s so important to include those other things I mentioned in the definition, there’s plenty of reading opportunities to explain that.
The dictionary is not a replacement for the social sciences, friend. It seems like you have a narrative in your head about why I am arguing this point, but I’d like to point out that your argument is currently standing on “but the dictionary though” in the face of decades of research.
I don’t know who that is; first time talking with them as far as I know. I don’t mind engaging with someone until they seem disingenuous; but yeah, that’s where I’ve reached with that person. A short reply of “check the dictionary” is not the sign of someone wanting actual conversation. Guessing you’ve had a similar run-in with them.
Hi @raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world ,
would you be so kind and elaborate about, how comment that is aimed on group of people based purely on their skin color is not racist and therefore reporting of it should be punished as it was? I say, it is misusing admin, or mod privileges for sake of spreading hatred against that specific group of people. All people should treat each other equally and nobody should banning people that fight racism by only option they have (had) on that platform, ergo reporting that.
Racism: attributing certain attributes (positive or negative) to a group of people based on perceived ethnicity. Also, to think that something like “race” even exists.
Comment in question:
addressing how society treats a group of people based on perceived ethnicity - being privileged is not an attribute of your person, it’s how your environment treats you
trolling about actions of said group - committing atrocities - and while this is arguably on the edge, the key difference to racism is that it’s describing actions that individuals and those in power commit, because no one with half a brain cell would read that comment as “all people of said group commit atrocities left and right”
That being said, for this particular comment, both parts of the statement are based in truth. On average, “white” people are still very much privileged in many parts of the world, and most world-wide atrocities committed post renaissance era were committed by the same group.
I am about as white as it gets, and I can definitely recognize this simple truth and certainly do not feel the need to get butt-hurt over someone saying it out loud.
people and communities got in full rage mode for much less. racism is racism and is always bad and therefore it got reported. you are just trying to excuse that with all that bs around. it was racistic comment aimed on people based on their skin color, period. i guess some particular admin got butthurt even more by that report, and misused his/her power, dont you think? doesnt that fact annoy you more, than that someone reported such a comment and you feel urge to attack me in comments around?
Calling someone privileged is not judging that someone, it’s judging how society treats them. Also, as I said elsewhere: rightwing assholes are intentionally diluting the severity of racism by using it inappropriately all the time.
People who believe that “race” is a thing, and who judge others by the perceived ethnicity are mentally ill and / or have a severely damaged empathy sector in their brain, which kind of amounts to the same. Those people need to be treated by a shrink, and since you can’t treat a mentally ill person on the internet, on forums they should be ignored and any racist comments should ideally be moderated / put into context to show them for how pathetic they are.
being privileged is not an attribute of your person, it’s how your environment treats you
Imagine your the guy who rides into the ritchest part of town, all the everyone has nice clothes, on a girls bike because its all you can afford, with cameras that know who you are by your face, with an autists social stumbling blocks, to buy dresses. And ill fucken do it again.
Privlage is to wish apon others, pain in witch you have the luxury to ignore
Are you suggesting that white people have never been slaves, never experienced racism? Always been the top of the hierarchy? History goes back a long way. Racism is not just perpetuated by white people. Get a grip and maybe a history lesson.
there is a difference between racism and prejudice. that comment is prejudiced but not racist. if white was replaced with black then it would be racist, bc there is an inherently power structure in play meant to create more economic and social opportunities for white people.
I try not to keep up with social norms but this comment really perplexed me. I tend to subscribe to a very literal definition of the term racist.
This comment is inherently degrading to people and their culture based on the colour of their skin. That’s racism full stop, creating racism power rankings with thresholds where comments aren’t racist if you are disparaging a collectively agreed upon advantaged race doesn’t seem like the proper direction to be going if the goal is to stop racially motivated prejudice.
Just to save you some headache, the people arguing racism requires power structures are Marxists, they view everything through class structures, and don’t acknowledge that racism can occured at the level of individuals.
As per your screenshot & the contained link, you reported this comment as racist?
It sounds to me like you got banned for a good reason, because that was an abuse of the reporting tool.
Reporting a racist comment isn’t “abuse”.
Even if you think racism is OK if it happens to be against a group you hate, it’s still not justifiable to ban someone for bringing it to the the attention of the administrators.
That would achieve nothing except make people afraid to alert the mods.
Thats a bad outcome no matter what.
The point is the comment in question wasn’t racist. It was stupid, maybe off-the-point, but whoever gets offended by that is a thin-skinned loser.
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Strawman. Comment in question was not racism. I am calling people thin skinned who get offended by a stupid comment and also, people who try to dilute the severity of ACTUAL racism by shouting murder at every inappropriate comment they don’t like, are probably racist as f*ck themselves.
Ah yes… the people calling out the racism are the issue. Very logical.
at this point, I can only conclude you’re one of the mentally ill people who are aiming to distract from actual racism.
I’m not the one with a world view that distinctly separates races into different social classes.
People like yourself think “If only I was in control”. I think you’re no better then any other totalitarian.
You just outed yourself as a racist, by admitting that you believe that a thing like “race” exists. I won’t waste any more time with you.
Or you don’t think that saying “privileged white folk” is racist in the first place.
Heck, “privlaged black folk” doesnt sit well with me either.
Lets not mince words here, reguardless of skin color, privlage to not just visit but live in unreality is really sad. And like you’ve won when you see it shattered.
I dont know the point of sayimg this.
Probably saying privileged yellow/black folk is not a racism too. /s
On the other hand if you agree, I will appreciate your consistency.
Personally, “privlaged ritch folk stuck in their infantile fantacy” works as a really punchy drop-in replacement.
Indeed, rich is not a race. Good replacement.
Imagine if you were to replace “white” with “black” or “asian” or “gay” in the text you quoted. Is it now a racist comment?
Those groups don’t have privilege.
Pff… try being a white guy in Japan…
A black slave master is a tragity. “You came from our position, you know first hand our plights and were taken in by their games anyway.” A normal person says .
Is he a “black betrayor” or a “betrayor of his own community”?
It feels verry wrong to say these things on racial lines about large groups rather than communal ones.
Same question, diffrent perspective. is he a “white ally” or a “born-again privlaged manager”?
Imagine that I have that kind of imagination even without your wise input, and that I do not change my opinion on " " being racist or not based on whatever you insert for the perceived skin color.
Just the idea that you have that I would make a difference based on what someone inserts there makes it seem like in your mind it does matter who’s being addressed. Because in my world it doesn’t matter.
Also, complaining about some “privileged” is not racism in and of itself, and with the addition of “committing atrocities”, the commenter on reddit outed themselves as a dumbfuck of a troll. And the previous poster clearly took the bait.
If it doesn’t involve oppression of a minority race by an in-power race, it’s not racism. Might be prejudism, not racism though. Racism involves a power imbalance that treats as inferior a minority.
No. It is not systemic or institutionalized racism. That does not mean it’s not racism. If you hate all white people for no reason you’re just as racist as someone who hates all black people for no reason. I wish we would stop conflating the two and pretending they are the same. Either you strive for equity and equality (meaning no one is out here saying any race is doing X Because they’re that race) the world would be a better place, or you create an argument where there shouldn’t be one to validate your own racism and or bias.
You’re talking about the Marxist definition of racism, aka systemic racism. OP is talking about the common definition of racism, as in to judge based on race.
Its annoying the word “systematic” was chopped off because its basically a trueism if you left it.
Right, but then you wouldn’t be able to dismiss OPs concerns. OP wasn’t talking about systemic racism, they were talking about the common understanding of racism.
The purpose is to muddy the waters.
I was being semi sarcastic, “an individual on his own is being systematically racist”. I removed context by accedent in a earlier draft
Sure is. But “White” is prejudice at worst, not racism. Racism includes the inherent power dynamics and systemic racism against minorities.
So when it done in average African country with total population 5% of white(definetly a majority, swear on
mathmeth textbook) is ok. Basically racism by non-white people is not a racism and there is nothing racist in this statement.I’m not sure if I should mark such absurdity as mere sarcasm.
Its about power, completely devoid of racial lines. It matters If you are given the privlage and act apon convincing yourself of lies. It also matters if you chase power at all costs.
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Yes, and racism is also a social hierarchy and systemic structure that utilizes tools of oppression to allow the in-group to have power and control over the out-group. Calling it prejudice alone is not acknowledging the full picture.
Oh my gosh, the closest thing to reasonable and you get a “consult your dictionary” comment.
Yeah, this thread has been fascinating. It’s the most basic concept and people are wild’n out. My last comment at the bottom of this thing I think will summarize it well for anyone who reads through it all. I think the biggest concern is why people are so resistant to understanding the additional power/control and systemic shit within racism. I use “gravity” as an example, but when it comes to racism, these are people’s lives. And I’d hate to think how invalidating it would make someone feel to hear this “no” and “check the dictionary” shit in a conversation outside of the Internet.
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Lol mate, you’re being willfully obtuse. As you already know, there is knowledge beyond the confines of the dictionary, and the dictionary is merely attempting to summarize a very complex subject. If you’d like to broaden your perspective, you can turn to the research which is where I’m pulling my definition. If you’d like to understand why it’s so important to include those other things I mentioned in the definition, there’s plenty of reading opportunities to explain that.
Yet dictionaries still exist, and their definitions don’t become invalid just because you want to avoid criticism.
Ive heard gross iterations by others (even in this thread) of what @flamingarms said, he has a fairly reasonable take in comparison
The dictionary is not a replacement for the social sciences, friend. It seems like you have a narrative in your head about why I am arguing this point, but I’d like to point out that your argument is currently standing on “but the dictionary though” in the face of decades of research.
They’re Frodo Douche Baggins. Not much point in feeding them.
I don’t know who that is; first time talking with them as far as I know. I don’t mind engaging with someone until they seem disingenuous; but yeah, that’s where I’ve reached with that person. A short reply of “check the dictionary” is not the sign of someone wanting actual conversation. Guessing you’ve had a similar run-in with them.
It’s more than that, though.
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Racism is my favorate word in any spelling bee because of this. So simple its easy to remember. Especially in comparison to 10 letter words.
Hi @raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world , would you be so kind and elaborate about, how comment that is aimed on group of people based purely on their skin color is not racist and therefore reporting of it should be punished as it was? I say, it is misusing admin, or mod privileges for sake of spreading hatred against that specific group of people. All people should treat each other equally and nobody should banning people that fight racism by only option they have (had) on that platform, ergo reporting that.
Racism: attributing certain attributes (positive or negative) to a group of people based on perceived ethnicity. Also, to think that something like “race” even exists.
Comment in question:
That being said, for this particular comment, both parts of the statement are based in truth. On average, “white” people are still very much privileged in many parts of the world, and most world-wide atrocities committed post renaissance era were committed by the same group.
I am about as white as it gets, and I can definitely recognize this simple truth and certainly do not feel the need to get butt-hurt over someone saying it out loud.
people and communities got in full rage mode for much less. racism is racism and is always bad and therefore it got reported. you are just trying to excuse that with all that bs around. it was racistic comment aimed on people based on their skin color, period. i guess some particular admin got butthurt even more by that report, and misused his/her power, dont you think? doesnt that fact annoy you more, than that someone reported such a comment and you feel urge to attack me in comments around?
Yeah racism is racism, and that just wasn’t racism. It’s your definition that is incorrect.
Dude this is mental gymnastics. That’s still an attribute.
If you judge someone by their race it doesn’t matter the factors you’ve used to come to that conclusion, you’re being racist.
Calling someone privileged is not judging that someone, it’s judging how society treats them. Also, as I said elsewhere: rightwing assholes are intentionally diluting the severity of racism by using it inappropriately all the time. People who believe that “race” is a thing, and who judge others by the perceived ethnicity are mentally ill and / or have a severely damaged empathy sector in their brain, which kind of amounts to the same. Those people need to be treated by a shrink, and since you can’t treat a mentally ill person on the internet, on forums they should be ignored and any racist comments should ideally be moderated / put into context to show them for how pathetic they are.
Adding layer of obfuscation doesn’t make it not a judgment.
Maybe stop saying racist things?
Imagine your the guy who rides into the ritchest part of town, all the everyone has nice clothes, on a girls bike because its all you can afford, with cameras that know who you are by your face, with an autists social stumbling blocks, to buy dresses. And ill fucken do it again.
Privlage is to wish apon others, pain in witch you have the luxury to ignore
Ahh yes, whites, the real victims of racism. 🙄
https://www.loc.gov/free-to-use/presidential-portraits/
You saw a rich white man once so whites can’t be victims of racism?
you saw a wealthy person of color once so racism is over?
Nope.
Are you suggesting that white people have never been slaves, never experienced racism? Always been the top of the hierarchy? History goes back a long way. Racism is not just perpetuated by white people. Get a grip and maybe a history lesson.
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there is a difference between racism and prejudice. that comment is prejudiced but not racist. if white was replaced with black then it would be racist, bc there is an inherently power structure in play meant to create more economic and social opportunities for white people.
I really wish more people understood this 😭
I try not to keep up with social norms but this comment really perplexed me. I tend to subscribe to a very literal definition of the term racist.
This comment is inherently degrading to people and their culture based on the colour of their skin. That’s racism full stop, creating racism power rankings with thresholds where comments aren’t racist if you are disparaging a collectively agreed upon advantaged race doesn’t seem like the proper direction to be going if the goal is to stop racially motivated prejudice.
Just to save you some headache, the people arguing racism requires power structures are Marxists, they view everything through class structures, and don’t acknowledge that racism can occured at the level of individuals.
Basically you are saying racism by non-white people is not a racism and there is nothing racist in this statement.
I’m not sure if I should mark such absurdity as mere sarcasm.
Could just mark it as a true and widely accepted fact.
Bullshit identity politics.
Calling a black landlord a slur because he turfs you and your family out of your let with minimal notice? Racist and directed at power.
Middle class black guy calling child from low income area “white trash”? Racist and directed at the prominent ethnicity.
Learn intersectionality and stop propagating this group bullshit.
You’re getting downvoted by people with no education.
Oh I’m well aware of the attempt to redefine racism to avoid accountability.